Jordan Ames (00:01.55)
Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the Red Letter Leadership podcast. We have a very, very special guest on today. His name is Fred Galvin. He authored the book A Few Bad Men. But before we introduce him, I want to introduce the topic of what we're going to talk about today, which our guest has very much real world experience doing, not once.
not even really twice, but multiple times in his career, did he have to speak truth to power and potentially face real world, professional, and personal consequences because of it? So the lesson we're going to be using to guide our conversation is out of the Red Letter Leadership book. It's page 76, titled Speak Truth to Power. And the context is of John the Baptist.
Before he is beheaded, he flat out tells King Herod some truth about his immorality, having extramarital affairs basically. So I'll just read a quick excerpt out of the Red Letter Leadership book here. Even in prison, John the Baptist boldly speaks truth to power, challenging the moral corruption of Herod. Here verse five reveals that Herod,
wanted John killed because he couldn't control him, mirroring the Pharisees' attitude toward anyone who defied their authority. John understood his life's purpose, to prepare the way for Jesus, and remained unshaken, confronting evil, even though it might cost him his life.
Today as we witness the rise of evil, the urgency to stand for truth has only grown. We cannot afford to remain silent when faced with immorality. As leaders, we must have the courage to call out wrongdoing without sugarcoating it and remain rooted in our principles, regardless of societal shifts or any consequences that may come our way. And this takes courage, and I couldn't think of any
Jordan Ames (02:23.243)
better guest than Fred Galvin. So let me introduce you to who Fred is. Beyond this introduction, I had the true privilege to serve under him when he was my company commander and I was a sergeant in his company. And then I had the distinct honor to have him as my retiring officer when I retired from the Marine Corps.
four years ago now. So Major Fred Galvin, US Marine Corps retired. He served 27 years in the Marine Corps with distinguished experience across the infantry, reconnaissance, force reconnaissance, and marine special operations, including roles as commanding officer in some of the Marine Corps' most elite units. He is also the bestselling author of A Few Bad Men.
Following his military career, he earned his MBA, devoted two years caring for his oldest sister during her courageous battle with ovarian cancer, and went on to found a financial services business, as well as a nonprofit supporting Gold Star families. For those of our listeners who don't know what Gold Star family is, it's a family that has lost a family member in the military in combat. And so it could be.
Gold Star kids who have lost a parent. It could be a Gold Star husband who have lost a wife or a wife who have lost a husband. Those are our Gold Star families. He later served four years with the Department of Defense and two years with Tesla, bringing leadership and training experience to complex organizations. Today, he is committed to faith-driven service through Hooks of Hope, a Christ-centered mission dedicated to combating suicide among American combat veterans.
by restoring the mind, body, and spirit. Welcome, Fred. Thanks for joining me. And thank you for your years of service, especially for the great opportunity I had to serve underneath you.
Fred Galvin (04:31.461)
It really is humbling and it's a pleasure to have served beside yourself and so many others that...
just like we saw each other recently and had that experience of seeing the vast experience and commitment that some of these warriors, and that's truly what they are, they are a warrior. And that profession requires the utmost commitment and it's really humbling to see what other people have done and to be somewhat of a part of that. as you'd mentioned, the thoughts came in my head.
of people wanted basically me to fold or buckle or compromise and at that time for me it wasn't about hey I have to make sure this organization which was stood up continues to survive it was about as you'd mentioned I wasn't trying to replicate John the Baptist or or Daniel or so many other cases that are described very clearly in the Bible but
when people are trying to do something that's flat out evil. come, and this was like a 12 year campaign to fight the largest organization in the United States by headcount. And obviously, of a worldly human based organization, it's the most lethal in the United States. you know, God convicted me and it really wasn't.
People sometimes ask questions like, you know, how it was just following God. And obviously sometimes, like I'm sure John, the path wasn't completely clear. But just like we have in the military and
Fred Galvin (06:27.681)
As Christians, it says there in 2 Timothy chapter 2, that we want to do what is pleasing to us. A good soldier wants to do what is pleasing to his commanding officer who enlisted him. Sometimes we don't know every detail of the mission, but we do know the commander's intention. And that's Matthew 28 is to make disciples. So you're out there doing what he commanded us to do.
sometimes it's unclear, but at least, just like a soldier in the military, they understand the mission and the commander's intent. And truly, we are warriors in the army of the Lord, and God gave us that commission. that's, you know, that is what we, and both you and I had been enlisted and also served as officers. So it's kind of interesting that God makes it very clear there in 2 Timothy that his,
We want to please the commanding officer who enlisted us. the implication is God loves the enlisted man. And when you go to Matthew 28, you know, he gave us this commission, the great commission. So being a Mustang is, you God is just like he described there in Joshua to Joshua as he was fighting the battle right before he fought the battle of Jericho. He's met the commander of the army of the Lord. It's the only place in the Bible that
Jordan Ames (07:32.269)
Yeah
Right, right.
Fred Galvin (07:56.719)
when a heavenly being appears before man, man...
prostrates themselves and worships and that's the only place where that heavenly being did not say, hey stop I'm a fellow servant. So we're supposed to serve the Lord just like we're serving in the military. when he met the commander of the army Lord it was different. That heavenly being said remove your sandals the ground on which you're standing is holy. So our God is a commander and he holds a sword and he expects us to serve him just like it says in the olden
Jordan Ames (08:17.474)
Yeah.
Jordan Ames (08:23.169)
I love that story.
Fred Galvin (08:32.349)
New Testament and we just need to obey. That's something that's very difficult for us and it was difficult for Joshua and that's why God repeated it multiple times. Be strong, be courageous, be strong, be courageous, be strong, be courageous and you know sometimes along the way the doors are open and closed and the answer will appear but we just have to obey and be strong and courageous. Those are the simple characteristics just like the Marine Corps has leadership traits.
Jordan Ames (08:33.537)
Mm-hmm.
Fred Galvin (09:02.309)
some principles. God made it very simple and clear for us. We're going to go through some dark valleys, but God will be there with us and He's going to prepare a table to provide for us this refuge even when the situation around us is chaotic, when our enemies on all sides. He's going to protect and provide. I know that's the example you've provided in Red Letter Leadership.
Jordan Ames (09:24.705)
Yeah.
Fred Galvin (09:32.189)
what you and I have experienced in our lives as far as having these situations where God has put us in a figurative lion's den or in the fire and there's that fourth man in the fire and that's the Son of Man.
Jordan Ames (09:49.262)
Amen. Amen. I love that story you brought up with Joshua. And as you were talking about, I I remember when Joshua asks this, this commander of the Lord's army, says, are you for us or are you with them? Like, who are you? And he's like, neither. And it's like, you want to be with me. Okay. I'm not with you. You want to be on my team. This isn't a me coming down your team. No.
Fred Galvin (10:04.219)
for me or against me. Yes. Neither. Right?
Fred Galvin (10:12.409)
Yes.
right.
Yes.
Jordan Ames (10:18.987)
Yeah, and I think that's what speaking truth to power is all about. It's like we don't do it. We don't subject ourselves to potential ridicule, professional personal consequences because we're thinking like God's on our team. We do that as Romans 12.1 says, as a living sacrifice, because we're recognizing we're on his team.
And this is what right looks like. So whatever consequences come, like you said, if we're thrown in the fire, then there's going to be a fourth one joining us, and it's the son of man. I'd rather be in the fire with the son of man than in a comfortable situation without him. And so before we get going more into it, I want to read an excerpt out of your book to kind of tee up the conversation. But before I do that, could you just, for the listeners, just
Fred Galvin (10:51.311)
Yes.
Fred Galvin (10:59.451)
That's right.
Fred Galvin (11:06.382)
Absolutely.
Jordan Ames (11:18.423)
Tell us a little bit about yourself, your upbringing, and what drove you to want to serve your country.
Fred Galvin (11:25.359)
Yes, actually this is a
It's kind of interesting story and it relates to where you're at right now is so my mom, you know, she she raised six kids by herself and She did so starting out as a secretary at I mean even before that she was pressing in ironing clothes and teaching piano lessons now she didn't have a College degree so she did whatever she could and in the 70s, you know a single wife. It was very difficult so she started off as secretary with this
travel agency and and then she moved up to being a travel planner and eventually a vice president for plans and operations and it grew to be America's largest travel agency and what that allowed her to do was to take these trips to plan these packages of trips for groups traveling and one of them was right there where you're at Jordan and it was some of these East Coast battlefields in the Revolutionary and Civil Wars and walking the ground
in Valley Forge there and in different places across the East Coast. was a 10-year-old kid. I was just humbled in all of that these people who had overwhelming odds. mean that was not the tactical prowess of President, then General Washington. It was divine providence. It truly was. It was giving him courage and you know he was a man of God.
Jordan Ames (12:46.193)
yeah.
Fred Galvin (12:58.589)
He was a man who loved his troops, talked that he would discipline them. If they, they're in the winter encampment of 1777, 1778 in Valley Forge, you know, they were basically on the run. And if the British, they showed the courage and they pushed further west, they could have routed and eliminated the army of, the Continental Army. But,
you know he he was very strict in disciplining them and with lashing if they would not leave the little hoochies, they would relieve themselves inside there instead of going out and doing things that would prevent the diseases but then if they succumb to frostbite and had to have amputation he would he would be there during that to
care for his troops. like Washington was always known for walking the line and sometimes he would have to turn away because he would just get so emotional that he would lose in composure. And that's something as a member of the military, we have to understand it's not common in this day and age to show emotion or to express your love. But that's what Jesus did in the ultimate sacrifice in the humiliation that he took on as the King of King and Lord of Lords.
He came not just to preach the Word and to perform miracles, but to be, as you just described Jordan, the living sacrifice. He embodied that. He was the full manifestation of this living sacrifice. And at that time, you know, here I'm watching these National Park Rangers describe these things and it's having this impact on me at 10 years old. And that started a path in me, you know, being raised as Catholic.
You know, I was kind of questioning what we're learning at school because I went to a Catholic school and then what we're learning at the the church the Catholic Church we went to and You know, we had this Christian television station there where I was raised in Kansas and I started learning and understanding. Okay, this is right out of the Word of God. This is what God's Saying to us, but they didn't really make it clear in the Catholic Church and I knew there was this gap and
Fred Galvin (15:17.053)
And so that started in me this quest of, okay, I'm learning something in school and church, and I'm learning something different when I watch the television. And that started the journey. So I kind of had this interest in the military, but I didn't have any family members, even distant relatives who were in the military to explain any of that or ask questions. you know, I kind of put that in a...
Jordan Ames (15:38.223)
Thank
Fred Galvin (15:46.127)
parking lot and parked it for until later on in high school. I still had that interest in there was this one kind of crazy nutty, know, he'd shaved his head and he was real gung-ho and he he'd enlisted in the Marines. And so that was my source of information. He was a quite a bit of a sort of like a tackle barrier on police academy like and he's like, hey, you know, the president can send in the Marines with executive order. He doesn't even need to, you know, they can just go. That's
Jordan Ames (15:50.952)
Mm hmm.
Jordan Ames (16:06.657)
Yeah.
Fred Galvin (16:16.061)
the motto of the Marine Corps at that time was the big slogan was the first to fight. And so I was like, I guess that's it's 17 years old. I'm like, that's what I want to do. You know, like this guy convinced me and he was the only source of information. So he brought me down to the recruiter's office and I talked to the recruiter and he's like, you know, hey, here we go. And he, of course he knew my age.
Jordan Ames (16:21.111)
Yeah.
Jordan Ames (16:28.063)
Yeah, that's where I want to be.
Fred Galvin (16:43.501)
and I wasn't old enough to join on my own. That was 1986 and I went to boot camp in 1987. So I was in this delayed entry program and the recruiter tricked my mom. said, well, he just told me, he goes, just leave that to me. And he went to my mom, to her house and had a one-on-one with my mom and she...
Jordan Ames (16:44.801)
What year was that? What year did you go talk to her? OK.
Fred Galvin (17:06.477)
She didn't know everything he was talking about. just kind of conned her. And he was relieved as a recruiter for doing that. He said, hey, if your son takes this battery of tests, then we can...
Jordan Ames (17:13.623)
Wow.
Fred Galvin (17:20.565)
figure some things out and he may be eligible for a scholarship. And that was loosely based on the truth. mean, something along those lines, I'm sure may have been a possibility, but that was not the intention of this recruiter, which was, you know, get the parental signature authorizing me to make that decision. You know, so because I was 17, I was minor and I couldn't do that. And so my mom's released that. And the next day I was, I went down to the recruiter's office
Jordan Ames (17:37.323)
Yep, get that signature.
Fred Galvin (17:50.411)
and enlisted and my mom went high orders like a Artemis II rocket and she was like what and she called and the next thing I know the sergeant major of the recruiting stations down there and in our house kind of grilling me like what happened and why did you you know I was like I was it was not like I couldn't take accountability and responsibility I just
Jordan Ames (17:54.369)
Yeah.
Fred Galvin (18:14.283)
The recruiter was like, hey, it was kind of the recruiter not explaining to me that he's going to use some smoke and mirrors and do a dance. And he got my mom's signature. But my mom realized that sooner or later, here this summer, he's going to turn 18. And he's going to do it on his own. And she knew that. so funny thing is, Jordan, that real gung-ho guy and I'll
Jordan Ames (18:23.329)
Yeah.
Jordan Ames (18:32.333)
It's gonna do it anyways.
Fred Galvin (18:41.411)
leave his name out of it but he ended up you know he had their family had at least some money we ours we were not able to do spring breaks or anything and that really wasn't even a thought or a complaint but I was happy going to school and I had to work answering the phones that the Jesuit priests this was an all-boys Catholic school and after practice I would answer the phones to pay off the scholarship that I
been given and but so this this kid he he went to spring break his family had some money so he went to spring break in there he smoked some marijuana and so the recruiter came and told me he goes hey this guy
for whatever reason, you know, he's told me he's smoked open. He's been booted. He can't. And do I think he could have done that as a tough guy, cool way to leave, you know, void his contract? Maybe. I don't know. God only knows, but, and he does, the individual. But anyway, he asked, the recruiter said, hey, you're supposed to go later on in the summer, but can you go? This was like a week after graduation from high school. And I thought, this is a dream come true, you know, like,
Jordan Ames (20:01.141)
Yeah
Fred Galvin (20:01.219)
man this this thing that you know I'd heard about since I was a 10 year old kid and these battles that were just
Jordan Ames (20:07.469)
It'd be real. Yeah.
Fred Galvin (20:08.463)
They're truly legendary. Now, you know, I'm signing up to do this. I just thought, man, like the Marines, this is the tough outfit. 1987 is the same year that the Special Operations Command had started up. So the Marine Corps was looked at as a 911 force, the US military's elite, and still is, but there was no advertising of...
Jordan Ames (20:12.503)
Yeah.
Jordan Ames (20:23.149)
Mm-hmm.
Fred Galvin (20:32.768)
Navy SEALs and Green Berets to the degree, mean Marines were considered in that category and I was like, man I'm heading to...
I'm heading right to action. And sure enough, I go to boot camp right after high school, and there's these drill instructors that were telling us, ironic as far as what's going on right now, Jordan. I clearly remember Sergeant McClay and one of our junior drill instructors telling me, he's like, the Iranian boats, if they take another shot at one of our ships, you all are going to combat. And I was like.
Jordan Ames (21:06.349)
That is ironic, isn't it? Wow.
Fred Galvin (21:07.791)
Yeah, and here literally like 47 years later, one administration after another, we're just being pushed around by these Iranians that were, they were little punks back then, but they were taking these shots. And sadly, Jordan, we never had a leader, I'm talking about the commander in chief, that stood up and said, stop. And that's what really this lesson that we're talking about today is about leadership of
Jordan Ames (21:12.193)
Jeez.
Fred Galvin (21:37.719)
know, those that you're tasked to fight for. And that's, it's really a fight of love. It's not a fight of, know, I hate this other side. Of course, as we know, God hates sin and God hates revolt and rebellion. You know, when...
Satan as it's explained very clearly in Ezekiel and Isaiah, you he said I want to be like the most high It's ironic that today The enemies kind of came out in plain sight. They're in the open battlefield They're in the hundred meters where they can physically be seen and and they're announcing their tactics and their Techniques of like hey pride. Well, that's the that's what Lucifer who was a cherub? I mean, he was very close in the inner circle. He's like a worship leader
And that's why God hates that. And things that we do along the way are really following Christ's example of humility. And when you stand up in the fight, sometimes being strong and courageous, it's a...
Jordan Ames (22:35.297)
Fred Galvin (22:41.017)
There comes a tax of, sometimes even up to bloodshed, up to loss. And that's as a leader, you have to understand that Jesus made that ultimate loss of life and loss of everything. He didn't come to show this example of glory, which is what the Jews at the time expected, is God to come in this magnificent display of overthrowing the Roman government in the cruelty,
Jordan Ames (23:09.995)
Yeah.
Fred Galvin (23:10.941)
that they were inflicting on the world at the time, and that's what they wanted. So sometimes what we want needs to be recalibrated and it's out of alignment with what God's will is. And God's will is for us to take that stand and be bold and strong and courageous. And sometimes that leads us to situations where
You know, it costs us a great amount. I have fought through some of these dark valleys and I've come out on the other side now and I realize that every time God required a situation where there was this sacrifice and it's like removing a portion of yourself that you held on dearly.
provided in the medium term something that.
was just far greater. And you see that in the Bible with Abraham and Isaac. He wants us to sacrifice even his own son, and God actually fulfilled that, where he wanted to test and ensure that Abraham had that level of commitment and would go through with that. And we have to do an examination, just like Jordan, you and myself have gone through training where...
when you go through a close quarter battle package, you have to be prepared, you have to visualize that this could require my life. And I have to get things straightened out with my family and my mind so there's no hesitation because it does require just, yes, right, and the life of others. so they get those things straightened out. I think the Marine Corps does a,
Jordan Ames (24:57.901)
Because if there's hesitation, it will definitely require your life. You can't hesitate. Yeah.
Fred Galvin (25:10.435)
an unbelievable job of training their elite warriors on what those sacrifices are. And just like God requires this purification process for us to lay those things, it could be even the precious blood of our own children is, you know, as sick as that may sound, but God doesn't want anything between him and us. If we put even our own children in, and some people may disagree with me, but this is what I believe with every
sell in our body that anything that's in there a career money some people it's their parents you know some young people that are you know those are idols and God wants all of them you know I'm not saying that you can't enjoy good health that's that's unbiblical but anything that comes with a higher priority that gets in the way becomes hedonistic and that's what
God hates. He hates that example because that's what Lucifer started out. The first sin wasn't a temptation in the Garden of Eden. The first sin was pride. And when I said the enemy's in the open, right now you see the enemy talking. Their banner is pride. They've verbalized it, they've visualized it, and that is the flag they are waving. And they're like, here we are.
You know, it's very clear and God hates that. He hates pride. And I'm not talking about pride that you worked hard in your job and you have a sense of completing a demanding. That's a little bit different context. And obviously God wants us to serve our worldly leaders as though we're serving in God himself, you know, to do our best in fulfilling that command that he gave us through the Word of God.
But it's a lot of times people, I am guilty of this myself, and I know this is kind of a different discussion, which we could say for some other time, but when you can move men and equipment, and you know from Fox Company, we trained very hard, but sometimes that gets in your mind.
Fred Galvin (27:24.345)
that you have this capability, you have this skill, and you see these people improving their capabilities and becoming better collectively, and that's important. But even how important that is, if that gets in our mind like, hey, I'm this great leader and look at what I can do, that is when you cross over to that point where you're not just doing it for the purpose that you have been tasked to do, but now you're doing it because you're competing
against somebody else and you're trying to position that that type of
ego and pride, that's sin and that's what God wants us to not ever have. Just like in a close-court battle package, when you get injured, they train us to look for other injuries. We have to do that self-assessment to understand, do we, you know, it says there's fiery arrows. We're fighting a spiritual fight. Just like in Hooks of Hope, this is mind, body, and spirit. And a spiritual attack can have effects on the mind.
Jordan Ames (28:05.677)
Yeah, absolutely.
Fred Galvin (28:29.569)
that can lead people to depression and isolation and addiction and those are all interweaving and then something spiritual can attack your mind, can attack your body and can take someone's life. We have to know the spiritual fight that our enemy who is out there, they're alive. And Jesus did a one-on-one and we have to understand their tactics. What are their tactics? It's written there. Their mission statements in John 10, 10 to rob, kill and destroy.
and that's their mission statement and commander intent all wrapped up into one. their tactics, they can do it one-on-one like Satan did with Judas. They can do it as Jesus confronted these demons, a legion of them. They can operate in large formations. But Jesus was very clear about this. That there is a heaven, there's a hell, and there's leadership, there's a table of organization of their hierarchy.
on the evil side and it's sad that, I don't know if it was Billy Graham or who it was that said the greatest tactic that the enemy uses because in the Bible it clearly talks about they're casting out demons and I mean it's tangible thing. They heard these voices and they're...
They're doing their, they're fulfilling their mission by trying to kill this boy by throwing him in the fire and the water, offering to do the, you know, tempting Jesus to throw himself off a cliff. It's always death. And what did it say with Judas? It said, Satan, one-on-one again, entered Judas. And what happened to Judas? Well, we know he hung him, he killed himself. That's, that's what the enemy wants to do to all of us. And if you don't have your armor on and you have a gap,
blindside, where you're just not facing the enemy, you're in an unprepared state where you're exposed because you're facing the direction that God doesn't want us. We're supposed to be offensively oriented, facing the enemy with our armor and our shield and our sword ready to do battle so that the enemy cannot inflict these fiery arrows. That's what he's shooting at us. But when we're doing God's will,
Fred Galvin (30:50.891)
It's just like in a physical battle on a battlefield here on earth that...
When our mind, body, and spirit is so engaged, we've prayed and we've sought God and we've prostrated ourselves and we've asked for His Spirit to encourage and protect not just ourselves but our organization. And you're fearlessly fighting. When you're in that kind of state, that's where God wants us. And I'm not saying that along the way you can't have some kind of spiritual, moral, or physical injury because those can't
But that's why we're supposed to be operating as teams. The very first thing that God said in the Word of God that He said is not good is for man to be alone. And that's not just in a sense of being intimate with a spouse. It's also we're not supposed to be alone when we're on the battlefield. And that's repeated in the Bible. Two or three are better. And even larger, we're supposed to be a part of a body that can help and protect. And it's very important.
Jordan Ames (31:45.133)
You know, yeah.
Jordan Ames (31:53.997)
Absolutely.
Fred Galvin (31:57.111)
know some people during certain parts of their lives are like, I don't need, you know, I go to church online, you know, with COVID and stuff and that's not, that's not being a part of the body. And a part of the body is, I remember Jordan, I'm not sure if, if you were.
Jordan Ames (32:07.626)
I need it now.
Fred Galvin (32:19.403)
on this part but when we were on our deployment with Fox Company in 2007 and we we pulled into Marmaris, Turkey I joined this, yeah, I'm the the portion I'm talking about is I signed up for this excursion through the Navy's they call it Morale Welfare and Recreation and they we took a bus to Ephesus where Paul had
Jordan Ames (32:28.225)
Yeah, I was there.
Jordan Ames (32:39.703)
Yeah, yeah, Buck and I went there.
Fred Galvin (32:41.859)
Yeah, and it was really interesting. I wasn't sure if he says it's been a few years now, but the tour guide, I love really high quality tours of explaining history. And this is the history of who we are as servants of God. And they said,
Jordan Ames (32:47.607)
Yeah.
Fred Galvin (33:01.051)
I don't have a little chalkboard, but I'll draw with my finger. One person would come along. This is a persecuted church, persecuted by the Romans, by, you know, they used to call them Roman candles because they'd light these people on fire to light the path for other Romans. But one would come along and they'd make a sign of like one move, like the wave of a fish. And the other would come along and they complete that sign. And that meant they were a part of, they call it the way. That's what they called the early church. And I heard that from the tour guide.
Jordan Ames (33:13.239)
Yeah.
Fred Galvin (33:31.005)
And I was like, wow, these people were truly under fire. I mean, they were living the word and it could cost them their lives. So there was an underground, but they would do that to strengthen each other, let them know, hey, Jordan, I don't know you, but I'm meeting at this time, this place, I'll do this kind of like we talk about.
Jordan Ames (33:54.862)
I don't remember the Taurus mentioning that, but yeah, that's incredible.
Fred Galvin (33:59.439)
Yeah, maybe I was just talking to the tour guide one on one, but when I heard that I was like, wow, this is kind of like what we do in the Marine Corps with a challenge and a password just to authenticate the, yes, to make sure that that person is on our team. But it shows that the profession of arms which we,
Jordan Ames (34:11.541)
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, authenticating.
Fred Galvin (34:25.817)
you know signed up for which right where you live in that state you know these these were the young people that decided like hey I want to serve my country and I just explained it a fellow warrior and friend teammate of ours their retirement you know the you know the Marine Corps even before the
country was declared our own independence. We organized, everybody's very familiar with that, but they went down to the Bahamas and started their own war against the British, the most powerful. And these were people who were scantily armed, but they had that courage. And what they do, the first thing, they went and got weapons and armament. And that's what we need to understand. Like on March 4th, 1776,
Jordan Ames (35:06.189)
Yeah.
Fred Galvin (35:18.045)
the very first offensive action by the United States Marine Corps was to get the weapons for warfare. that's what we need to know as Christians is if you're not, if you don't have a sword and you're not in it, you're gonna be a fatality. And you have to be armed.
Jordan Ames (35:36.397)
Yeah, the strongest, the best defense is a strong offense, right?
Fred Galvin (35:41.455)
That's right, and you just have to run them over. Yes, yes.
Jordan Ames (35:44.654)
Well, hey, me get into just if you could touch on where you came to a saving faith in Jesus and then how you've already kind of talked a lot about it. But if you can maybe just give some maybe examples, I would say like pre-Fox Company, because we'll get into that situation, but kind of how he shaped your leadership, know, pre-Fox
Fred Galvin (36:11.599)
Yes, so I do believe that God had a route for, clearly laid out for me. And I was just, again, on this path, was seeking God.
is you know as a 10 year old kid I saw this these battlefields and I was kind of an awe and then I was always in some kind of athletics from the time I was five years old my older brother who's 10 years older me he got me into judo which he was doing and then a year after that I got into Okinawan karate and so I was learning about martial arts and I remember they had this Christian television station in Kansas
where we were, and it was called Channel 50. And the station name was called Kansas City Youth for Christ. So it went out on the airwaves and there was a, because I was into athletic endeavors, I remember it was sometime after we came back from Valley Forge and these battlefields, Antietam and Gettysburg, that I...
I was watching television and they had this guy, he was a natural bodybuilder named Dick Hathaway. And he had this channel, his program on channel 50, the Kansas City Youth for Christ. And I was kind of looking for mentorship. know, our dad, you know, left the family and, know, so I see this guy, he's a natural bodybuilder. And this was a time right at the cusp where Arnold Schwarzenegger and yeah, these were like,
Jordan Ames (37:47.553)
Yeah, like Conan the Barbarian's coming out.
Fred Galvin (37:50.797)
like now just starting out. So somebody that's like physically strong and you know, he's a, but this guy's on daily. He has a daily workout show. And I forget that I think it was the Dick Hathaway show, but every day he would start off the show and he'd say, you know, we're going to get in and he'd read the scripture and it was Christ based. And so that was, you know, a mentor of mine. And now I was going to a Catholic school at the time. That's where I started to see this gap.
And I accepted the Lord because I just remember they had a 700 club and they're talking about things that are way different than the Catholic Church. And they're talking about accepting Christ as your Savior and repenting of your sins. Not just confessing them in a booth to a priest, but to understanding that we have to turn from that. Not just like, well, every so often I can go in this booth and confess my sins and this man will forgive them.
He's like I was getting in the word because dick Hathaway would so I started getting turned on I need to get in the Bible and I need to work out I need to eat and I started getting on this health kick and So that turned my asthma to true north and I started to follow and then You know what I was watching 700 Club and You know, I was like, okay I need to accept God as my Savior and then I remember at
this Catholic all boys school going there with my Bible, you know, kind of getting ridiculed, but I was like on this mission, like I got to make these other people aware. I mean they literally...
Jordan Ames (39:29.423)
ridiculed at a Catholic school with having your Bible?
Fred Galvin (39:32.773)
Well, I'm just saying that people were like, hey, what are you doing? Because I was trying to convert people. And I was trying to say, hey, there's things that we have to all be aware of. wasn't.
you know, the kid in school that's condemning and like, you're going to hell to the, to the priests who are teachers. And, but I was, I was basically saying, you know, God's calling us for repentance and a personal relationship to be forgiven. And, and it really started.
Jordan Ames (40:03.967)
You're speaking truth to power back then.
Fred Galvin (40:06.831)
back then. Yeah. And I was also like in my, as I said, in our family, our dad left. So was my mom was essentially, she was the one parent. She was a mom and the dad. And because this Kansas City Youth for Christ, and that's what I started, if I had free time, you know, we only had like four channels in Kansas City at ABC, NBC, CBS, and then this Kansas City Youth for Christ. And the Kansas City Youth for Christ is what was like, Hey, this is interesting stuff. And they talked about,
Israel and and as more I read the Bible I was telling my mom I was like man I want to do this I think it was called a AFS it was like American foreign schools and I wanted to go to Israel and I was like mom I want to do this so bad like I was crazed like I wanted to go like actually walk in the places that we're reading about in the Bible is a 13 year old kid and I didn't understand that you know there's no financial way you know there's no
route and there was no internet. It was not possible then to do what people can do now like some GoFundMe or you know it was just like it was a dream that I had from watching television like I want to go to the promised land and see where you know God brought his people back to this area and he brought his son you know here on earth you know who died for our sins. was just like this is unbelievable.
I know that would be a great experience which I still would love to do but it's unnecessary for people, know, just like in the Muslim faith they believe they have to do this hajj, this track and stuff. God doesn't require, it's not a requirement. You know, it's great if you could do that and
Jordan Ames (41:55.214)
Yeah, I've had the opportunity on two different deployments to visit Israel and it was great. I loved it. But as the guy who loves history, I wish there were more sites there that commemorated the event that Jesus did, a miracle or the cross and the graves, like without a big cathedral built on top of it.
Fred Galvin (42:00.527)
Yes.
Fred Galvin (42:17.241)
Yes.
Jordan Ames (42:23.373)
You know, I wish they would have like preserved the site as it was 2,000 years ago. Me personally, I would have loved that. But, you know, the cultures of religion and stuff, you know, build all of that. And there's even politics, you know, politics between the Greek Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church. like they split ownership and responsibility of the Church of the Holy Sepulcher. And there's all this, you know, church politics behind it, which is like, it's still.
Fred Galvin (42:23.887)
right.
Fred Galvin (42:29.797)
Yes.
Fred Galvin (42:49.231)
Yes.
Jordan Ames (42:53.099)
You know, you go to that place or you go to the garden tomb, which some people believe that Jesus' crucifixion and his tomb is at one area and some people believe it's at the other. Really, it doesn't matter, right? It's the fact that it happened that matters. Yeah, but yeah, so how...
Fred Galvin (43:04.355)
Right. That's correct.
Jordan Ames (43:12.625)
Can you give us some, maybe one or two stories about like how instances where Jesus has shaped who you are as a leader?
Fred Galvin (43:23.759)
Yes, and this kind of ties into our connection. So joining the Marine Corps, there's good and there's bad about that. And if you let me clarify this.
Marine Corps is a good organization. But just like I wrote a book about a few bad men, there's some people that not all, it's a few, but they can actually create this organization or certain leaders to be these idols, which that's not the way that God wants us to be. In my own life, I had this relationship which sometimes I was on fire, but especially as a young teenage kid,
from boot camp and I was just there in San Diego yesterday and it's a beautiful city and you know being from a flat prairie like Kansas you can't help but just marvel it you know it's the weather is like perfect and there's beautiful hills and a lot of things and then plus going from an all-boys school just bear with me here going from an all-boys school to a city where they the largest city in the country where there's plenty of girls and so there were some distractions in my life sometimes like
And at a young age, I knew what I was doing, also, you you can get outflanked and enveloped. And things can happen in your life where the enemy gets an upper hand and you get a toehold in your life that, you're caught off guard. And God's, you know, telling us, know, like our enemy is out there like a roaring lion.
I'm gonna diverge a little bit more to just make this point because I was mentioning earlier that I think one of the greatest tactics I think Billy Graham said this is He's not manifesting himself in these people that are possessed and foaming at the mouth and throwing themselves in fire anymore I haven't seen that and I'm not saying it doesn't go on somewhere in the world, but that's not the mainstream, but now the enemy's tactic Yes now I think his greatest tactic is trying to convince people that he doesn't even exist and I want to tie that into
Jordan Ames (45:25.153)
He fits into the culture. Yeah.
Fred Galvin (45:35.615)
like how wild animals are in the prey and what the Bible says about that because like undomesticated dogs like jackals, hyenas, coyotes, they hunt often in packs and they hunt after the weakest. So they're going to try to go after something that's slow or injured. And it's totally different than the Bible says. Our enemy is like a roaring lion and undomesticated wild cats like lions and jaguars. What they do is they're not trying to go after
Jordan Ames (45:54.285)
Yeah.
Fred Galvin (46:05.539)
the slowest or the injured, they're trying to find, they hunt by sneaking up on their prey. And they're looking for somebody that's totally unaware. And isn't that amazing that like right now, the tactic of our enemy is that, you know, most of the world, if you said, do you think the devil exists? Most people in America would probably say, no.
And that's exactly the tactic that he wants. He's sneaking up. when you don't even know that he's there, well, that's a lion, an animal that can overpower, that's physically heavier, more vicious, and has the natural ability just to devour and overwhelm. And so we have to be very well aware and equipped. God said that very clearly in the Bible. do have an enemy. And that told his tactics. That's how he hunts. And he's out there to
Jordan Ames (46:56.749)
I love how you put that. if I could, if I could interrupt, you made me think of the story of Gideon in the book of judges, chapter six and seven. So, so God calls Gideon to lead the Israelites to route these Midianites and Gideon mobilizes, you know, the local Israelite tribes. gets 32,000 Israel, Israelites, warriors. And God says,
Fred Galvin (46:57.176)
Hunt.
Fred Galvin (47:02.523)
Yeah.
Jordan Ames (47:25.645)
Okay, this is a little too much because if you operate with these, then you guys are all going to take credit for doing this. So he says, we need to dwindle down this force. And he says, tell those who are afraid, say they can go home. 22,000 were afraid, and so they left. And that left with 10,000 left. And God said, that's still too many.
And then he took them to this stream, and he said, for those that kneel down and just drink the water right from like, shove their face in the water and drink it, versus the ones that pick it up in their hands and lap out of their hands like a dog, he separate those. And then for the ones that kneel down to drink it, tell them to go home. And that left only 300 left. And I was just reading this a couple weeks ago.
Fred Galvin (48:19.792)
Yes.
Jordan Ames (48:25.165)
And so you had a large group that was afraid and God's like, if you're afraid, if you don't have the faith that I can do this, I can't work with that. I'm not going to work with that. And then he said, what, what are the ones that shoved their face in the water? They weren't not aware. They didn't have the self awareness. They didn't, they weren't thinking about the situation around them. They weren't keeping their eyes up. just, so that was, that's awesome. What you shared. Cause you're, you're spot on. It's like,
Fred Galvin (48:34.649)
Right. Yes.
Fred Galvin (48:43.311)
Yeah. Yeah. What's going on? Yes. Yes.
Jordan Ames (48:55.074)
The enemy is, we have to be faith fueled. That's gonna counter our fear and we have to be aware. Yeah, sorry, I just wanted to share that. It's good.
Fred Galvin (49:05.475)
absolutely it's no it's kind of interesting to bring that things happen in history I'm not saying the Marine Corps God's army or anything but you know that we talk
God through getting one of this group that was completely committed. And that's one thing they say in Marine change of command ceremonies. They hand this guide on to the new commander and they say this is a traditional expression of complete commitment. And that's what we are supposed to be as Marine warriors. But also as a Christian, I believe that that ethos of complete commitment, not partial, not on Sunday, not
when we wake up and have our devotion but complete throughout the entire time. And that's what I was mentioning. I've had these times in my life where God's calling me out to a deeper water to a complete commitment and testing me because sometimes when things are good and you're in San Diego and sunny and there's great beaches and you get time off and you can get easily distracted. But God wants us like He doesn't want tens of thousands, He wanted 300.
both part of a unit called Force Reconnaissance in the Marine Corps. there was, they had a table of organization, you know, that they just didn't compromise. I mean, they had six platoons that they could man, but then they didn't want to compromise that. So usually they'd only man five platoons of 25 men each. And there was two of these active duty companies, one East, one West, and then three platoons on, in Okinawa. So there was roughly 300 force recon.
Marines and those Marines as we both experienced they were very committed I'm not saying they're perfect and I'm not saying they're angels but in living that life I will make a comparison that they were ridiculed you know the Marine Corps has this mindset and it went back to when they first tried to create these Marine Raiders of World War II and they did create them that while the same president that created them Franklin Delano Roosevelt whose firstborn
Jordan Ames (50:58.934)
Right.
Fred Galvin (51:17.757)
son was the executive officer at 2nd Marine Raider Battalion. know, so he had a personal connection with this organization and then they brought in a new commandant while Franklin Delano Roosevelt was still the president and General Vandergrift disbanded this elite unit saying it is not in the best interest to have an elite with an elite. But I make the point to what you just described Jordan. God wanted an elite with an elite. I his chosen people, his army
was elite and he wanted people that had, as we just described, know, that when they hand that guy on, complete commitment. You know, these are fearless, and that's what God's calling us to be is he doesn't want us to second guess. He doesn't want people that are double minded or people that if given mixed signals, turn to fear. Those are the enemy tactics that our enemy who is alive uses. What did he use to Eve?
deception. He's going to distort the truth. He's going to deny the Word of God. He starts with a question. And if you're double-minded and you're not totally grounded and you're not completely committed, it's easy to bite that apple. There's forbidden fruits in all of our lives. Something that we know we can't do. But if we're constantly grounded in the Word of God, and more appropriately, this is the people that are listening to this in your audience that are reading Red Letter Leadership.
There's a difference in listening and hearing and then doing. We're not saved through works, but...
Having faith is, you know, through grace is how we're saved, but if we don't do works, it's dead. And when we're working for the Lord, it's just like your physical fitness. When you're spiritually doing something every day, we're gaining greater capability, and that gives confidence in the physical domain or in the spiritual domain. watching and being a caretaker for my mom for 11 and a half years until she just died this last summer, I saw her as a woman of prayer.
Jordan Ames (53:01.217)
Right.
Fred Galvin (53:26.013)
every day reading the Word of God, praying, and then I didn't pay specific detail. didn't turn around, sit next her and see exactly, but when she'd pray, she had a log book. And just like, you know, people who are offensively minded, if you're a mortarman or you're an artilleryman, I mean, you're out there fighting the enemy and you're doing it directly and indirectly and then you have a target description name in the military that's Alpha Numeri.
But then you have whether that was suppressed neutralized destroyed my so my mom after she passed away I saw like her little Book of targets and she would specify by name. So it would be like Jordan. I'm praying for his family Specifically, you know, you know get in there a little bit greater measurement his son This is what his son's going through and she'd have a date just like in the Marine Corps when you record that target that that's been destroyed because that
Jordan Ames (54:06.027)
Ha
Fred Galvin (54:25.999)
that sin or that enemy may pop back up. But she would, hey, he has been healed at this time, or I was praying specifically for this job. But what that does and why I want to call that out is that increases our faith. When we go to that next level, when we get more professional and we're aware of it, I'll show you. When we have our own little prayer list, like I was this morning in my devotional,
Jordan Ames (54:35.693)
That's awesome. What a testimony.
Jordan Ames (54:44.864)
Absolutely.
Fred Galvin (54:55.933)
and we have the name and we have what we're praying for and then when we have the exact date that that was answered, we're like an artilleryman, we're reporting that target, but that gives us faith. You know what? All the way down the line, God's answering these prayers. And if something may not be, maybe I just need to pray like it says in the Bible with prayer and petition. Now, I'm not using a shoulder-fired rocket anymore.
Now I'm using a weapon of mass destruction. I'm calling in supporting arms that are gonna drop a precision guided bomb, something riding a laser to just obliterate, as Donald Trump likes to say, take even greater action. Because a petition that says, when you use prayer and fasting and pray and petition, if you look up the definition of petition, like I have this Bible study that I have each week in the brig here for the military service members that are imprisoned.
Jordan Ames (55:32.993)
Yeah.
Fred Galvin (55:55.757)
I talk to them because they're all having this question. Some of them have anxiety that they're they have this fear of what's going to happen. You well, I have a normal life afterwards because, you know, this is going to be on my record and it's going to affect me. But God listens to the prayer of a righteous man. He does. And when we petition, that's that's, you know, coming humbly before our God and saying, you know, God, I really want this. Jordan, me being here right now testifying to you from Honolulu is an answered prayer.
because I remember sitting at my kitchen table in Kansas when I retired and started this business and When you talk about an example of faith like I was I knew like in the Marines We you and I were on a mission, you know, we and other people were on missions together and you have Recon buddies and you know a team with you. That's how it's supposed to be. But when I was doing this business I had us installing these drive up
automatic teller machine kiosks in these war zones. These are the what you could call like in the military a denied area. This is like hell on earth, urban. Yeah, and I could have easily been killed because I hired four different Marines at different times that in every single one of them only lasted between one and two weeks because for them these are young combat veterans non-commissioned officers. There was one officer but
Jordan Ames (57:03.233)
Yeah, in Kansas City.
Fred Galvin (57:20.411)
They all quit because it was very, very dangerous, but God worked with me. So I realized that I'm not alone. Just like Daniel in the lion's den, or Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, there's somebody else in the fire. God was with me on these things. I'm carrying around over $100,000 in cash, loading these machines. God was with me. But after four and a half years of that, I remember, and I had worked with a business broker for an entire year, and he introduced multiple
multiple qualified people that were seeking to buy a business and I'd show them the numbers they were like whoa and I tell them the little pitch and they're like you don't have competition I'm like no I do not have any competition a bank would never in the right mind put banks model is to avoid risk mine is to accept risk and but it is very risky and then I'd show them the physical locations and every single one of these people tapped out but I remember sitting at my table kitchen table in Kansas
Jordan Ames (58:07.894)
you
Fred Galvin (58:20.221)
not with just prayer, but with petition, petitioning God, saying, God, this is, I'm really asking for this specific relief. Like, I just want a regular job. And when that happened, Jordan, this is no, no kidding.
was sitting there at my table, I get a phone call from somebody that I'd met one time 15 years before, unsolicited, he called and said, hey, apply for this job in Hawaii. And as you know, there is no active duty infantry, or there's no active duty recon units in Hawaii, so I had never been stationed in Hawaii. I'd sailed through on West Coast deployments on ship, this is the first and last stop that you have, and it's a beautiful place, but my whole point in telling you this story
is when you seek God's face and you put Him before anything else, just like it says in the Word of God, He knows what we need and what we want and all that will be added unto you. But I was seeking God and really I just wanted a regular job. wanted to provide and God knows that, okay, He's not asking for anything selfish. I just really realized that it could be likely that I get a body piercing that I don't want.
somebody out here in the ghetto just shoot me and but to get that call but then I still had this issue like okay
Now I have to use this armored car service which takes away almost all these profits. But I was praying for a regular job and God brought me that. But it just happened to be on the furthest place literally in the United States away from where I lived in the heartland in the middle of America. So this is the furthest place away. But how do I load cash which I was loading it myself. How do I do that? I'd even experimented with a Marine Office
Fred Galvin (01:00:13.977)
who I have remained nameless that know theft got involved and I had to fire him but it's hard to trust people with sometimes you know they're loading a hundred sixty thousand dollars in cash you know unsearalized bills that so this other gentleman who I never met before unsolicited contacted me and said hey I will load my cash in your machines and this is right after I applied for this job that I didn't know
I was gonna get here in Hawaii and all of sudden I was like, okay so God was opening these doors and he's opening doors that he let me know after working with this guy who acclaims himself as the best business broker in the United States and you know, I'm working with this guy and Those doors are closed. So God does certain things for periods of time sometimes to let us know like Okay, like what you cannot do
I will just like with Joshua like okay these guys are wandering around Despaired demoralized Yeah, yeah like I will do what there's now I've proven to you that you cannot
Jordan Ames (01:01:17.421)
Yeah.
Just to remind you, I'm still in control.
Fred Galvin (01:01:29.467)
with your own ability, you can't sell this business, you can't get this job. My story in A Few Bad Men, was professionally destroyed, I applied for 700 jobs, negative results, but I was continuing to face the enemy, to drive, and then I was on command tack one, calling God, saying, okay, now I need supporting arms, I need this, I'm desperate, and when we are desperate,
we're talking to God like, I hate that term in the military we use it's called dependent, but when we are dependent on God, just like a child, your children, they need you for subsistence, for food, for clothes, for shelter, the essentials. We have to be in that same way to God like, Abba Father, I can't do this on my own. I need you, I need your strength, I need your protection, I need that on daily basis, but now I just, I don't want my mom to see another one of her children buried like our oldest sister who had died of cancer and you know.
And God, boom. mean, right after I finished praying, I had been seeking God for a while, but I get this phone call. What's the probability? I'm not a statistician. I'm just a dumb guy from Eastern Kansas. I know that, okay, if I applied for 700 jobs, I was allowed one interview in my hometown for a job which now I look back, and sometimes God does this, so that we look back with thanks that like, boy, now I know a lot more about that
and I'm so glad that God spared me from it, which at the time I thought, wouldn't it be good just, but then God will reveal, okay, this ram, this will be your sacrifice, this is what I want you to do. And so coming to...
Jordan Ames (01:03:11.277)
Yeah, what we think is good is a lot of times we don't see the bigger picture and we have to trust what he knows is good. you're talking about the, talking about, and I don't think I knew that, that you applied to over 700 jobs. So let's turn to more specifically, because that's really a consequence. You applying to 700 jobs and not even getting an interview is a consequence.
Fred Galvin (01:03:16.687)
Yeah. And yes, and does it repeatedly.
Fred Galvin (01:03:40.109)
one interview.
Jordan Ames (01:03:41.314)
I just want it is a consequence of you being faithful and speaking truth to power. And so I want to read a selection out of Fred's book. Again, his book is titled A Few Bad Men, the True Story of US Marines Ambush in Afghanistan and Betrayed in America. So I was, we didn't really get specific about it yet, but.
I met Fred whenever I was coming off deployment from Iraq in early 2006. was February 22nd is when I got off the bus. February 24th, 2006 is Marine Special Operations Command's birthday. That was the day that they had their ceremony, that they actually stood up, opened up the colors and they existed. So now we're 20 years.
into that command. But I was coming off a deployment with Second Forest Reconnaissance Company. The Marine Corps decided the way they would stand up this Marine Special Operations Command is to take each Forest Reconnaissance Company from each coast and turn them into a Marine Special Operations Battalion. So for us, at my level, I was a sergeant just coming off my first deployment.
At my level, my job didn't really change too much. I was still doing direct action. I was still doing reconnaissance. But the whole task organization and who we worked for changed completely. And Fred was assigned as the company commander for Fox Company, which was the company that I dropped into from coming off that deployment. And so I'm a sergeant in a
a 40 man direct action special reconnaissance platoon. There was another platoon, our security platoon, and then we had a pretty robust company staff and Fred was the commander of all those Marines. What was our on deployment, what was our count? Was it like 180 or is that too high?
Fred Galvin (01:05:50.661)
We.
We deployed with 115 and then I had requested augmentations so that we could have logistical support because you can't go into an austere environment for any length of time and not have the ability to sustain yourself. And so I broke it down to a heavy, medium and light package of additional Marines to support us, which years later you saw that that would became organic, but we had only one vehicle mechanic and
Jordan Ames (01:05:53.805)
100.
Fred Galvin (01:06:21.283)
Yeah, we had, as you said, robust company staff, but those were communicators and those were intelligence, both signals and human intelligence and all source fusion and communicators. that we didn't have logistical support. Again, we had 45 vehicles between what we brought and then what our higher headquarters gave us. And we had one Lance Corporal to maintain those. so we I say that because I requested I put out there
heavy medium light and then just the minimum of six people and of those six which finally got approved, Marsok was like, pick the five that you want. These were, we're not even gonna give you what was accepted like, okay, the special operations command ordered the Marine Corps, you're gonna give them these minimum of six guys. So they sent five more. So to answer your question, those guys showed up the day that we were ordered out of Afghanistan and so we deployed,
With 115 to Afghanistan, we deployed out of Afghanistan with 120. But that's the kind of the template that went on the first few cycles is we had a template that was similar to what Marines deployed on the ships with. But your platoon was more robust. Instead of 25, it was approximately 45. So it was a really beefed up, reinforced, forced recon platoon that was
retitled special reconnaissance or direct action special reconnaissance platoon and and that was good but with additional people in your operating way out in Indian country you have to be able to feed and sustain and provide a lot of logistical support when when you're alone and unafraid so
That was my role as a commanding officer wasn't just to plan missions and understand the battle space, but it was to normally we would have like an operations officer later that that came into fruition. But my job was to fight to allow us to have the resources, the manpower and the equipment to to be able to sustain these. You're operating in mountainous environment as you well know, like a lot of these roads, if there are
Jordan Ames (01:08:29.773)
Right.
Fred Galvin (01:08:44.335)
roads lot of them are just trails that time of year next to the Toro Borough Mountains are muddy it's just treacherous terrain yeah you could easily you know
lot of Marines unfortunately died in vehicles either getting blown up by roadside bombs or vehicles sliding off of a muddy embankment or a cliff or a combination where they're blown up and tossed into a ravine or a canal and some unfortunately drown. So those are the things that, you know, we're on our mind is how do we have the best mobility? you know, sometimes to, I mean, we're sitting there on an airfield with
all these troop transport helicopters and requesting every day because they're like, hey, we want you up there in the Toro Borah mountains. And we were also told, well, you have to have another quick reaction force to immediately reinforce. We can't have another operation, Red Wings, which was what most people realized the book in the movie, Lone Survivor was built around and they didn't ever want that repeated. So we had to have a force that could immediately respond and reinforce. So something like that wouldn't happen again, but
they would not, so they gave us this order but then they pulled the rug out from underneath us and said you're not gonna get any this air support. I'm sure you were there watching certain teams prepare for these air insert missions and then those were constantly denied on a daily basis which the aircraft...
Jordan Ames (01:10:18.125)
Yeah, I remember. I remember doing rehearsals for one. It's like, oh, it's getting rolled. It's like, why does this keep getting rolled? Anyways, I want to.
Fred Galvin (01:10:24.665)
Yeah, and the aircraft are right there on the airfield, sitting there doing nothing.
Jordan Ames (01:10:28.907)
Yeah, yeah. remember an excuse that was made something like, and you would know this better than I would, but something like, I think it was the one 60th that was planning on putting us in, but they were saying how like it was too dangerous for them. And I'm thinking, at my level, I don't have experience with them like you guys and the others, but I'm thinking.
Man, this is like one of the best aviation units, the best aviation unit in, something doesn't sound right. Like they're not gonna say, we can't do that, that's too hard or something. Like you and the other leaders planning the OP wouldn't plan something that's too hard for the 160th.
Fred Galvin (01:11:05.787)
Yeah.
Fred Galvin (01:11:14.843)
Yeah, we're being tasked to do something by our higher headquarters. They want us up there and it's required. mean those mountains when we got there in February, they're covered where they wanted us in this area of operation Bulldog is completely...
encapsulated in snow. And so to get up there requires helicopters. mean, could you drive to a certain point? Well, that's what we were trying to achieve on the fourth is trying to find an area that we could see if there's snow melt where, I mean, as we just finished describing, the most dangerous thing, unfortunately, was nature. You could go up on these trails and have a vehicle roll over on a thin little road and roll down from the high elevation.
because it's snow and melted snow and you know that's how a lot of Marines unfortunately are killed. We had one of the Marines who's a Staff Sergeant Communicator in Fox Company and he'd been involved in a training accident in Camp Lejeune where he was involved in this vehicle rollover and they tried to come after him just as a literally a scapegoat but I'm saying that to illustrate these vehicles, I mean they're very real, they happen and it's tragic when you're in a
vehicle with twisted steel and that's what these things this is heavy steel and you roll over and probably gonna have Marines get severely injured if not killed in vehicle rollovers so
Jordan Ames (01:12:46.797)
Well, I wanna share a little bit for the listeners about how capable our platoon was before we get into reading out the book and of course the event that the book mainly addresses. And so for the listeners, I was in, like I said, forced recon platoon, of course Fred commanded a few.
And I remember there was a few of the guys in my force recon platoon going through the first shooting package I went through. We had to qualify on the range, a very specific qualification before we could go live and shooting in the house. And it was common that not everybody would qualify the first time. That they would need some remediation and re-qualify. And that was a 20 to 25 man platoon.
Our platoon sergeant in Fox company with now a 40 plus man platoon. He trained us so hard and so well that when we went to the shooting package, all of us passed the qual on the first time, which is incredible because I remember the instructors of the shooting package. They were like, we've never seen this done before. And this was a platoon twice the size. And that just is credit to
Fred Galvin (01:14:06.223)
Yes.
Jordan Ames (01:14:07.989)
our platoon sergeant. And of course, your guys' leadership in empowering him to be able to train us that way and all the all the other four Shrecon veterans that were on that platoon. And I also say that not to share with the listeners like how well-trained I was, but I always like to tell people that I'm no war hero. I was never decorated with valor or anything like that, but I am proud to have served with
with some giants. Some of them were in Appleton, some of them were in other units, flat out warriors, legends in the community, legends in really, at this point, American history, American military history. But.
For the rest of this podcast, I just want to focus on the incident. So March 4, 2007, I wasn't on the patrol. Fred was on the patrol. About half our platoon was tasked to do this patrol. On their way back to the base, they were ambushed. I'm not going to get into too many details. I'll let Fred kind of touch what he wants to touch on with that. But basically,
Within about a half hour of the ambush, the guys are back on base. We, of course, I was on base training an Afghan National Police squad with my team. And we hear about the ambush. One of our guys was injured, but they fought their way out of the ambush. They returned to base. Within a half hour, it was all over the internet. The Afghan Associated Press just pushed out that innocent civilians were killed by Americans.
And of course that just launched the information warfare that resulted in a lot of people above Fred.
Jordan Ames (01:16:08.727)
coming down on him and just saying that there's guilt before there is any show of any sort of evidence that anybody did anything wrong. Basically, the people above Fred fell into the trap of the enemy information warfare, really operations. But I do want to read an excerpt out of his book. Again, the book is A Few Bad Men.
true story of US Marines ambushed Afghanistan and betrayed in America. this little, it's about two page excerpt really shows the point that Fred was, Fred really just had to address that he was going to stand on the truth even though it might cost him his career. And certainly at that point, he doesn't know it's gonna cost him, but he does know that he's in the fire.
And earlier in the podcast, he even shared that he had 700 job applications in only one interview. And that's just one example of much more consequences that, unfortunately, Fred had to go through. And several of the guys involved in the incident had to go through that really hurt professional and personally. And so.
Let me read this. So the launch of a preliminary investigation by Special Operations Command Central was announced the afternoon of the March 4th ambush and began four days later. Following on its heels was a more extensive probe ordered by the Marine Corps Central Command, commanded by Lieutenant General Mattis and conducted by NCIS, the criminal investigative branch for the Marines. Over the next month, NCIS grilled
my Marines in Afghanistan and Kuwait, where we had been banished. Two months later, the investigators finally put their boots on the ground and body cop. That was the area where the ambush happened. When the men of Fox Company returned to the US, NCIS interrogated many of them again. In total, they took 160 statements from witnesses of the March 4th ambush, or bombing, excuse me, and its aftermath. Meanwhile,
Jordan Ames (01:18:32.459)
We were being hammered by the media and even senior brass at the Pentagon, prompting me to enlist the services of Marine Lieutenant Colonel Scott Jack, a military defense attorney. But I felt certain we would never find ourselves in a courtroom, not because of any whitewash by some of our own that would quickly absolve us of any crime, rather because we hadn't been bloodthirsty American troops on a rampage. We hadn't killed any civilian, not a man.
not a woman, not a child. Still, considering the severity of the potential accusations, Jack was doing his job when he informed me that he could try to seek immunity for me in exchange for testifying against others of the MarSoc 7, East, Lester, the gunner in vehicle one, Klein, the gunner in vehicle two, Walker, the gunner in.
back of vehicle two, Clark, East Splatoon Sergeant, and Pratt, the gunner in vehicle six. I could escape the possibility of criminal prosecution and prison. I declined emphatically. If my men were going to go down, then I was going to go down with them. So I'm going to stop there, Fred. If you could think back to, there's a lot in that book.
course that angered me but a lot I just didn't know I just wasn't privy to all the details that were going on as the you know the court of inquiry was starting and stuff I do remember right around the time the the court of inquiry kicked off I was I was working in the three shop I was sent over to a range range safety officer you know training to become a range safety officer and there's guys from
from 2-2 there, some staff NCOs from 2-2. And as we were waiting for the training to get started, somebody brought up this court of inquiry. Of course, it's historical because it was the first one since the 1950s in the Marine Corps. And these guys were starting, they started saying like, yeah, that was us. And I'm thinking, OK, they're talking about that was on our deployment, that was the Mew we were on because they were the BLT on the 26th Mew with us.
Jordan Ames (01:20:55.021)
And so I'm just listening to them. And they just start rattling off. like, oh yeah, these guys just shot up things all the way back. And my blood was starting to boil. I just walked out. I went back to the battalion. told the ops chief. I was like, sorry, I'm going to have to go back another time. I couldn't sit there. But that wasn't even, like I said, there was so much more that when I read in the book.
that you guys went through. so if you could, with that excerpt I just read, if you could take us back and explain, like at the beginning of that, you call on this lawyer and he's like, well, you know, if there's wrongdoing, you know, we should hold people accountable. So if you want to testify against your guys who may have killed civilians and done these things, then maybe it will, you know, give you the immunity and stuff like that.
So yeah, just for the listeners, as he's saying that, of course, like you said in the book, it's kind of his job to kind of, he's defending you, right? He's kind of bringing those, so what was going through your mind as we think about this topic, speaking truth to power?
Fred Galvin (01:22:12.089)
Yes, there's a lot there, but I would say I remember when Lieutenant Colonel Jack said that, and he was like, hey, I could get you immunity. And that's what they call the legal term. Basically, if you're given immunity and you say, as long as it's just the truth, then nothing can happen to you.
you it's sort of reminds me of the stand not to get into it. Like you, you took with the COVID-19 shot, like, Hey, I don't, some things are just more important to me. was just instantaneous. Like absolutely not. And it, this is some background at that time in the Marine Corps, in reconnaissance, as you correctly mentioned, there was not a, there was not a,
occupational code for a reconnaissance officer. There's not an occupational code for a MARSOC officer. So they told me that the infantry officer course your infantry officers and if you ever go to reconnaissance don't stay long and don't ever go back. It'll destroy your career. I put this in background because I knew like just going I was a platoon commander in one force recon company on active duty.
Then, the war was going on, I went to do another three-year tour. So my entire time as a captain and about a year as a lieutenant was as a force recon platoon commander. And I knew that's like queer suicide, but I grew to just love the Marines and the mission. mean, these are people that are completely committed. So like your brothers. And maybe some of that seasoning because I'd spent
my career except for the first two or in the infantry I spent my career in force reconnaissance maybe as a younger guy I could have things may have been a little bit different but God allowed certain things to happen a certain time where
Fred Galvin (01:24:25.967)
just like after the disciples saw Jesus resurrected, they were there, they saw that in person where prior to that, maybe things would have been different. mean, obviously they did run and flee and deny and their faith wasn't completely as strong, but after they saw Jesus resurrected, every single person to the man was either killed or with John, they tried to kill him by boiling and they failed, but they made that sacrifice.
That was their commitment after Jesus showed that he defeated sin in the grave. so when that offer, Jack said that, said, absolutely not. And he says, I just had to ask. It's my job to, truly his job is to defend me. That's what he's to do, but he won't violate as that attorney-client relationship goes.
Jordan Ames (01:25:13.333)
Yeah.
Jordan Ames (01:25:17.645)
.
Fred Galvin (01:25:25.961)
if the client says I'm gonna die on this hill he realized like okay now I'm gonna do my best as a legal officer to defend him and I think Lieutenant Colonel Scott Jack did a great job and he was doing what he was trained to do like a this is an option and obviously my client doesn't want to have anything to do with he's gonna he's gonna fight and
Jordan Ames (01:25:47.35)
Right.
Fred Galvin (01:25:54.073)
why that's so important Jordan is and this is I don't have proof but I'm sure as some have said and is the the guy that wrote the forward to the book a few bad men
He said he was there in the Pentagon when they were ordered by Dr. Rumsfeld to create the Marine Special Operations Command and he heard people saying, we have to kill this. I do, using that as exhibit A, that he was there in the Pentagon, at Headquarters Marine Corps, they don't want to have anything to do with this. Now this is being used as the case study of, these Marines, I remember our commanding officer for the battalion, Lieutenant Colonel Paul Montanis,
asking us right when he met us in Kuwait. Was it true that you were drunk? there's people, and this is so outlandish. mean, you being there present, you realize like we didn't just go out on a patrol, which started at six in the morning, people drinking and, but to have our own senior leadership to not have any kind of faith and to even contemplate, I mean, he was a person that as you well know, you just came off that deployment.
Jordan Ames (01:26:55.734)
Right.
Fred Galvin (01:27:07.933)
and he was your commanding officer on that deployment. How could you, and I'm not saying that I'm completely straight-laced, but as you know, I mean, I didn't let guys have beards and I mean, things were falling straight and narrow. But to just question, and I remember one time he got in my truck before we deployed and we were going to brief the general on like a status update of Fox company before we deployed and he gets in my car and I'm not boasting, I'm just stating this fact.
Jordan Ames (01:27:10.507)
Yeah.
Fred Galvin (01:27:37.805)
Wow, this is this is so clean your car is squeaky clean and you know I use as an example like When you know somebody and you just know like their life is in order they are They are this Type of person and then the first thing you have of course that battalion commander absolutely hated me like
very much with he ate every cell my body and so this was just but just he like the rest of record. And I heard through the senior listed ranks that. Before they came over to Kuwait.
Lieutenant Colonel Montanus went in to brief Major General Halyk and Major General Halyk said we're going to bring this new company commander, we're going to relieve him. The battalion Sergeant Major was there who I'd served, was our Sergeant Major when I was in the 4th Recon Company over in Okinawa, Japan. you know, I get this word that
that our battalion commander, they said he was giddy. He was like excited that, you know, he's going to get to go over there. I mean, just you think of things like that where you're chain of command. But then also I do honestly believe that just like it happened in 1944 with the original World War II Marine Raiders, I believe the Marine Corps did not want this. I mean, you saw originally and I write about it in the book that they said, everything that you need is in the armory at Second Force recon. You're not going to get any night vision.
Jordan Ames (01:29:05.879)
Yeah.
Fred Galvin (01:29:13.799)
you know, all those weapons, that's it. mean, Special Operations Command had all these new weapons, binocular night vision for depth perception because you're right in vehicles, which is very dangerous if you don't have binocular depth perception. But they didn't even want to, I mean, everybody, as you well know and remember, mean, we're living in these old buildings or trailers and there was not even a plan at the start and it later, obviously now, 20 years later, it survived.
And that's one thing as a leader, think you must have that long-term vision. There's several other examples in special operations history when you look at the World War II Raiders, how their first mission ended in a surrender note to the Japanese that the commanding officer and the executive officer, Major James Roosevelt, the president's firstborn son, they wrote a surrender note. then the first mission to recover, ironically, American hostages from Tehran.
Jordan Ames (01:29:44.322)
Matt.
Fred Galvin (01:30:14.644)
in 1980 ended in a crash and a failure loss of lives the first and that was for the Army's Special Operations every very first mission and then the Navy SEALs during a operation urgent fury and Grenada in 1983 for loss of lives parachuting in and drown at sea bodies never recovered so all these units survived Delta Force went on to capture Saddam Hussein SEAL team six went on to kill Osama bin Laden
Jordan Ames (01:30:22.989)
Yeah.
Growing pains, Yep.
Fred Galvin (01:30:43.665)
The Marine Raiders saw as when we were standing up as you correctly mentioned, know, they saw the fulfillment that okay now the Marine Raiders are formed again and that's as leaders both for
organization like the Marine Corps, as well as in the Army of the Lord, we have to have faith. And we can't have our faith just take a hit and go into shock. That's why we train for battle every day. Like you had mentioned, you know, we it wasn't accidental or just by chance that we chose those leaders who, you know, we picked to lead that first platoon that you were in. And, you know, when I contacted that gentleman, he was
at this training school in Arizona learning even more enhanced shooting techniques. And I said, hey, I need you to go to Las Vegas, to this convention. I need you to see all these types of weapons and equipment. Okay, and we were just on a mission to identify and hand select the very best people and as a goal to get the best equipment and to identify that by type and quantity. We were there to do everything we could.
because besides our salvation
you know, God gave us other gifts and these gifts I realize as you did later on in your career when you were entrusted with the lives of America's sons and daughters in your hands and what you did. The Marine Corps got it right. The organization's fine. You know, that we're supposed to, as leaders, have that complete commitment. And, but then also in the army of Lord, just like you've been made mention with Gideon, we're, he doesn't want people who are uncommitted, who are unaware, who are
Fred Galvin (01:32:36.055)
not going to have that mindset of a warrior. But yes, it was an honor and I knew that leading these men was, you know, I wasn't the best, you know, the powers to be, I think God...
put these things in place and things would have likely happened much differently for the organization which as you mentioned just celebrated 20 years it probably would have folded if if they had a good excuse the mass murder of in wounding of 19 and another alleged 50 wounded so 69 people total I mean that was I mean in the weight of that I mean just like a lot of people know this other case with Eddie Gallagher they accused him of killing one
person and one of his lawyers I think he had three one of them had a bill for him of over a million dollars so the consequence of
Wounding and killing 69, with the max penalty being death. So you understood the gravity. This isn't having a sixth can of beer in the barracks room. We're speeding on Camp Lejeune Boulevard. This is something that there's capital punishment for. it's heavy, serious and heavy duty. But it's also, after it was all over, longest trial in Marine Corps history, we had a...
it adjudicated and they said we're exonerated but they didn't use legal terms so that's what led to this additional professional destruction even after getting out of the services they never use term legal terms such as innocent or not guilty or dismissed as was used in 100 percent of every other military justice case and those are the outcomes you're going to either be found innocent guilty or the case will be dismissed there's nothing in between but in our case they said we acted appropriate
Fred Galvin (01:34:37.917)
So the press continued to write these things that wrote it on the day that I retired from the Rincourt that Galvin killed 19 and like so those and I learned these I served seven more years and I've been in the media that People in journalism don't want to unearth some old stale case they want breaking news so first things like that to not just happen again, to repeatedly continually happen is as it has happened this last month, and I don't want to get into this case because
Jordan Ames (01:34:47.723)
Yeah.
Fred Galvin (01:35:07.837)
One of the people that served with us was your leader was mentioned in the the news again and you know, they falsely accused of killing 19 and you know, so okay now they're not going to promote this Yes this last within the last two weeks and because he's serving in the government I won't mention his name as he's requested not to but this is still ongoing, but it's it's not accidental and because the
Jordan Ames (01:35:22.733)
That was a recent thing?
Jordan Ames (01:35:30.605)
Sure.
Fred Galvin (01:35:37.709)
Marine Corps never cleared it up. And one of the battles that we fought was resulted in a House resolution, which the late Congressman Walter Jones from North Carolina, our district congressman in that area, had written House Resolution 21 in the 115th Congress to have the comment on the Marine Corps make a statement that the Marines of Fox Company were not at fault in the ambush on 4 March 2007. And the Marine Corps wouldn't even do that. It did take 12 years for the Department of the Navy to write a
12 page letter but that was written and signed by two
civilian judge advocates and these two women had the guts to come out and publicly say and specify and said what happened against these men was immoral and unjust and but the fact of the matter is is that didn't get in the papers and that wasn't publicly and do I have a copy I have a copy here yes but you know it's it's so bad that a United States senator used that is justification for this other individual that we served with not to get promoted
Jordan Ames (01:36:28.075)
Yeah.
Fred Galvin (01:36:42.693)
because he doesn't have all the facts and he's still going off of hearsay and conjecture which is false. That people still believe to this day, to this month, that this month that we're in that there was guilt. That this was a shameful heinous... Right. Yeah.
Jordan Ames (01:36:56.971)
Yeah, it's the whole perception is reality piece, right? Like when the media can put out all this stuff and it can hit headlines, but then the stuff that says, they're exonerated, they did nothing wrong. And that's buried in the communication. Well, the perception is that, well, something was done wrong. They just didn't get jail time.
Fred Galvin (01:37:20.635)
Yes.
Jordan Ames (01:37:22.037)
Which is what's resulted in you having 700 applications and getting one interview. Because those applications at Google Fred Galvin, the perception is he's a war criminal. Yeah. Even though nothing was ever even, no, no evidence was even found to go at anybody.
Fred Galvin (01:37:28.633)
Yes.
Fred Galvin (01:37:33.349)
guilty. Right. And that
Yes.
Fred Galvin (01:37:43.823)
No, not a body, a drop of blood, not a photograph. that later started, when they do these accusations, there was this evolution that, OK, now we have to have some people under these white sheets. Now we actually, as the Taliban would do, and as you well know, it's disgusting, that they will kill innocent civilians themselves and say that the coalition, American forces did this.
you know our enemy is a disgusting person they will use death and we have a spiritual enemy and I do I have about seven minutes because I have another event after this but I will say this that a lot of veterans who have been to combat have been affected by
physical pain, know, the lot of them is orthopedic injuries could be a knee, shoulder, back neck, and that's shooting pain signals through the spinal cord, which there could be impingements into the brain. A lot of that pain is 24 seven. It's no relief ever. It interferes with their sleep, interferes with their mood, interferes with their speech pathology. They, this mind and body pain doesn't go away easily and they may take pain medications. If they go to a, veterans administration often they'll
receive psychotropic medication. Marines and other services, Marines, were founded in a bar right there in Pennsylvania. we have alcohol in our DNA, in our genes. But they mix this concoction, this cocktail, and then they get, it opens doors for spiritual attacks. And lot of the people, some, I will again have remain nameless because they're people
that you and I served with had vocalized this in these charity events that I lead called Hooks of Hope. But they say these voices are telling them to use courage and just like you did in the battlefield, don't be a coward and kill yourself in front of your family. Do it in the police station. So this is very real. we face, and military service members are not alone. There's people in America now, like the number one killer of Americans, 18 to 44,
Fred Galvin (01:40:00.969)
is as a opioid overdose. So people are killing themselves with overdose because they get addicted and that is a real problem. have a they call it a mental health epidemic or pandemic in America and the world right now. But I would say this is a tool that the devil is a really it's a spiritual attack. It can begin the nexus is usually pain, physical pain with like the Bible and the Greek. I'm not some Greek scholar, but they use the word
Jordan Ames (01:40:20.973)
Absolutely.
Jordan Ames (01:40:25.997)
Mm-hmm.
Fred Galvin (01:40:30.653)
and people can get addicted and enslaved with pain medication and I believe that is a channel for spirits to take over and control people's mind body and spirit and so that's really really important for people to understand more of that this suicidal ideations and some people who we both know and we've served with have committed suicide
We tried to, and these guys survived literally decades of fighting many of these men their whole careers and now the deployment's over. They've retired but they're at war with a real enemy. And these are strong courageous men. If that is someone that you know of, that is something that needs immediate action. Just like we're trained with doing immediate action drills and procedures, emergency
Jordan Ames (01:41:05.431)
Yeah, whole career.
Fred Galvin (01:41:30.513)
procedures. The first thing is they need to get a lifeline and that is someone who is a true strong Christian that understands the essential elements of spiritual warfare. And these people need a lifeline to be rescued. don't they don't need a some hokey book. They need somebody to physically walk with them and take them and be beside them in the fire. Because this is something that like Hooks of Hope we've had so many people come through.
And every single one of these people, and these are people that had a gun in their hand. They were there alone. One of the tactics of the enemy is to isolate. And they were isolated and chasing whiskey with Winchester. And that's a deadly, deadly, deadly combination. And that can be stopped. But the first thing is being aware, doing buddy checks, contacting your friends and who you know that are going through some dark times and saying,
hey, I'm gonna be there for you. Many of us had these calls where you're actually walking somebody through like, I'm gonna show up or go to your family's place, do not go into that hotel. This is important for us to be aware of and to take action. This is not something that, that's what I'm saying, I meant to say before is, you can't just have faith. You have to have faith in works. And works are, I'm gonna stand in the gap
Jordan Ames (01:42:57.941)
Absolutely.
Fred Galvin (01:43:00.273)
that's what I did in the book A Few Bad Men. Our men were under fire. And that's still the case right now today. Is people are having these suicidal ideations which, just like Jesus said to his disciples, said we tried to cast out these demons but couldn't. says this kind only comes out through prayer. And we have to be fully engaged as Christians, just like we are in a battle because we're in a spiritual battle. I hate to,
Jordan Ames (01:43:29.355)
Yeah, this has been great, Fred. Let me just close this out for the listeners out there. Speak truth to power. Like it will cost you something, but the consequences of not doing it are much greater. And somebody is going to be positively affected when you do that. You're going to be taking care of somebody. And so thank you again, Fred, for coming. This is his book, A Few Bad Men.
Fred Galvin (01:43:30.173)
break contact. Yes.
Jordan Ames (01:43:59.245)
Read the whole story there and how he had to face really all odds were against him. But yet he stood strong and suffered a of consequences. Yeah, he wasn't thrown in jail. But as you heard in this podcast, there's a lot of things that he's still dealing with and the other guys that were kind of put on the chopping block are still experiencing. so Fred, thanks again for coming on. And I just want to share lastly,
Check out Hooks of Hope. Fred's been very involved with that, along with the guys that stood up. know one former Marine Raider is very involved in it. And they're doing phenomenal things and trying to get veterans spiritually healthy and then physically and mentally healthy again. So Fred, thanks a lot. I'll let you go now.
All right, God bless you. See ya. Amen.
