Ben Hunter (00:01.483)
All right, welcome to another episode of the Red Letter Leadership Podcast. We are super excited about the guests that I have an opportunity to speak with today. I know everyone is going to have just a great experience in this conversation. I'm excited. I feel like this has been a long time coming. so again, this podcast is an opportunity for us to talk about the Red Letter Leadership book.
that we have authored and really what it does is it's an opportunity for us to share a special operation military leadership experience and Jesus's perfect leadership example that he gave us through the gospel. And so, you know, if you haven't picked up a copy of the Red Letter Leadership Book, we would love for you to.
You know, we've heard people tell us that it is a great Christ centered leadership playbook. There are opportunities in there where some folks use it as a daily devotion and some folks looking for specific topics or struggles in leadership and they want to know what Jesus did. And it, the book goes from the entire scripture, the gospel of leadership and what Jesus did and how we can pull
from his experience and the things that he did, and so we can become more like Christ. And so without further ado, I'm gonna get to introduce one of my closest friends and someone that I had a pleasure of serving with in the 75th Ranger Regiment, Edward Graham. Ed, thanks for coming on to the podcast with me.
I'm looking forward to this conversation. It's gonna be fun. It's gonna be entertaining and fruitful for the audience, I hope. So thanks for coming on, brother.
Edward Graham (02:00.206)
Thanks for having me. I'm sure it will be entertaining. Probably some of my fondest memories are with you, even your brother. I've always appreciated and cherished your friendship, the professionalism that you brought on target. But yeah, you were just a natural Ranger leader, so I loved being in the regiment with you.
Ben Hunter (02:22.658)
Yeah, it was a great experience and one that, you know, I think we can always look back on when I've lost to talk about between you, my brother, and some of our other Ranger buddies. But just to kind of bring the audience into what our relationship has been like over the years. so Ed Graham and I met first time in the third Ranger battalion out of Fort Benning, Georgia. I was enlisted. It was around 2005.
I was at that time a E-5 Sergeant in the Ranger Regiment, team leader. And Edward Graham had arrived to the 3rd Ranger Battalion as a fire support officer and as a Lieutenant and showed up. you know, I'll just off the top, Ed came in with a little bit more aggressiveness and toughness than we were used to.
for lieutenants to come in, you know, the ranger regiment for those listeners that know is a very NCO led, right? Non-commissioned officer led organization. Ed came in there and, you know, he, was with my brother, Ian, Hunter and I were both NCOs in the ranger regiment and we, you know, we had it all figured out and Ed came in with a little sharpness and a little bit more confidence than we were used to. It like, who is this new lieutenant who's, know, six four and, you know,
uh, you know, jacked lieutenant, you know, a little bit more of a man than most and, you know, aggressive and he would question things that Ian and I were doing. uh, and, know, we Ian and I would like, look at each other like, who is this lieutenant? He's a fire support officer. He's very aggressive. And so Ed showed up and there was a little bit of a headbutt between us, you know, honestly at first, but then there was this shared experience in combat.
where we were in the thick of stuff with Ed, my brother and I in Iraq. And it was tough, it was aggressive, there was a lot going on. We were going on two or three raids a day for 60, 90 days straight. so there became a real close bond pretty quick and we actually appreciated his aggressiveness. so fast forward, I ended up commissioning as an officer and then
Ben Hunter (04:44.333)
Lo and behold, I get a chance to work with Ed Graham again. He's a company commander in first range of battalion. And then I am commissioned and show up as a, uh, as a captain, a lieutenant and captain. And, um, I am his company executive officer and we go on more deployments together. So it is really cool. Ed and I got to work with each other for many, many years, um, in the 75th ranger regiment. And so that is the.
background of us. know, Ed, just, you know, what are your thoughts as I kind of bring that history and things that we experience together?
Edward Graham (05:21.517)
I laugh, you know, I go back to Mosul days in 05 when I, because I showed up and we were deploying right away. I had no train up. I had no idea what it meant to be a Ranger Fire Support Officer. I was coming from the 82nd and only being there a year when I tried out and came there. So I had no combat experience. Mosul was my first time in combat. And so any kind of bravado or what you were talking about before it was all show.
And I didn't have my Ranger, FSNCO with me. He was in Afghanistan, if you remember, that we split the company up. So, yeah, I did two deployments with you guys as the FSO before they let me switch to infantry. But I was always with the same two platoons. It was your platoon and R. Kelly and Bristow's platoon that I was always with. So I did two deployments with VA. Many people, maybe your listeners know who Van Aalst was.
Ben Hunter (05:54.604)
That's right.
Edward Graham (06:18.125)
Unfortunately, we lost Van Aalst years later. But I remember getting into it with your brother one time in Mosul, because I got left on the roof by myself. And y'all went like five blocks away. And so I'm sitting up there controlling fires. And no one told me we'd collapse in EXFIL I really wasn't mad at you. I was probably mad at Landers. It was Landers' job to tell me we were moving.
Ben Hunter (06:31.788)
I remember that. I remember that.
Edward Graham (06:46.189)
I came back down and everyone was turned loose and I had to re-clear the house. I also had some guy jump on me and that's what made me mad. You know, you talked about experiences in combat and how it draws us together. I remember came home from that Mosul deployment and my wife told me, you know, because we were new, I just got there and we deployed and she talked about her new friends and they happened to be your wife Lori and Ian's wife Abby and we all started hanging out and I...
Who knew back in 05 that was the start of a a military family, journey that would take Ian a different direction as he would go to Fort Bragg to work for a different unit. And the experiences and the testimony that he would have in him and his wife, Abby. But how we remain best of friends and close now. know, I brought you, I was actually the S1 when I brought you down to...
Ben Hunter (07:41.931)
That's right. Yeah.
Edward Graham (07:42.062)
175, so I hired you, but I wouldn't let you work for me as a platoon leader. I put you in a different company because I knew I was taking deco. XO commander relationship is different. And so I went to battalion commander. was like, this is who I want as my XO. And to the listeners, what an incredible job Ben did as a humble leader. It was a rough deployment because we were in one of those environments that we couldn't do. We were in the most kinetic part of Afghanistan.
but the part they didn't really care about. They were only worried about out east then and anything we did would shut down east and they did not want us to shut down, so mess up. You were methodical and you're targeting, you're hunting during the daytime to set us up at night. I can remember you'd come in to start your shift to see what we did that night and to see the roll up and get all excited to see that your work had carried over and to get into the individuals that night that we were hunting. But I couldn't ask for a better XO, but more importantly,
a brother in Christ and a friend and it's been fun to watch you grow in your faith and as you lead your own family. Christy and I are very proud of you and we're so excited to do this today.
Ben Hunter (08:53.641)
Yeah, man. Well, you know, sometimes you look back at that experience and all that we did and the things that we went through and you almost forget to get into conversations like this with, you know, friends and folks you're close with. And, know, you and I experienced so much, you know, on the battlefield and in life together.
through our families and the closeness that we've had. And so it's this, again, just another example of what a wonderful time this is to just be able to connect and talk through some things and share with our audience some of our experiences and how that has shaped our relationship with Jesus ultimately. And it's something special. So, I wanna get into some questions for our audience here, geared towards the Red Letter leadership and Christ-centered leadership.
you know, from your experience in Ranger Regiment and the things that we went through together, and now, you know, you've stepped out of the Special Operations community, out of the Army, and now you're running operations at Samaritan's Purse. You know, what kind of, what experiences in Ranger Regiment and in the Army kind of helped shape your leadership and character with Samaritan's Purse?
Edward Graham (10:10.157)
Yeah, it's a great question. You know, I've thought about it often and people often ask me questions about leadership like I'm supposed to be some kind of expert. You know, one thing I learned about at the Ranger Regiment, what's different is we have to try out every three years as an officer, now as senior enlisted. know, Corilla changed it where even enlisted, had to keep trying back out, which I thought was great. It makes the pyramid even steeper, make sure the talent, you get a relook at yourself.
Ben Hunter (10:32.404)
Yeah. Yeah.
Edward Graham (10:39.015)
officers enlisted used to this, but officers are rarely ever boarded. You know, the only really unit in the military that would board people are the special operations units and the Rangers do it every three years. And as I went there, always gave me a fresh look as I tried out, but I remember I was a battalion XO and at the Ranger Regiment, I was responsible for the assessment selection company and RASP 2, you know, fell under battalion. And so I'd always have to address
Ben Hunter (11:06.953)
That's right.
Edward Graham (11:08.749)
the new hires coming in and especially lieutenants but some captains they've never been boarded before so they're asking me what is the board looking for and I never had the privilege of sitting on a board I got out before I could ever compete to be a battalion commander at the Ranger Regiment it would have been an honor I loved the unit it was very good to me and it has shaped me as a leader but I never had the privilege of sitting on a board so I'm speaking a little bit out of turn here I know a little bit about because being at RSTB
you know how the boards are conducted. I've seen them. I've actually sat on a couple, but I was never running one. I always said, Hey, what we're looking for here in the Ranger regiment and what I wanted as a company commander was humble confidence. And what I mean by that is you got to be confident in the decision that you make. And once you make a decision, you got to fall through and sometimes not look back. Doesn't mean you don't look back as an after action review to make yourself better, but
Ben Hunter (11:51.795)
Mmm.
Edward Graham (12:06.239)
you've got to learn to surrender those results and put them at the foot of the cross no matter what happens. But the humble part comes in, you you talked about my bravado coming in and being sure of myself. I wasn't. I was sure of my fire's capabilities and I was probably a good fire support officer. I, you know, I knew I had a lot to figure out. I didn't understand how the...
Ben Hunter (12:12.04)
So good.
Ben Hunter (12:25.242)
High competency, yeah.
Edward Graham (12:31.937)
the regiment worked or how we worked on Target and how these assets now that I've never worked before. I had a lot to learn there, but what I learned is when they asked me a question, be like, you know what, sir, I don't know the answer, but I know where to go. And I know who to talk to. And you go find talent and surround yourself with talent that's actually better than you. And I remember he's one of my favorite leaders in the regiment, Rick Merritt, Sergeant Major Rick Merritt. And I remember when he alleged, and I was...
Ben Hunter (12:56.745)
The legend.
Edward Graham (13:01.397)
I was a platoon leader in Ramadi, my first platoon leader deployment. And, you know, I'm looking throughout the side of my PVS 15s and giving guys left and right limits as we're moving across the street and we'd made contact. And I tell this ranger, hey, you're left and right sector. And he's like, Roger, sir. And I was like, I'm sorry, Sergeant Major. You know, I just gave a Sergeant Major a left and right limit, you know. And he's like, yeah, he's like, don't worry about a task and purpose. Thank you.
Ben Hunter (13:22.854)
Right? Yeah. The lieutenant, yeah.
Ben Hunter (13:30.937)
Love it. I love it.
Edward Graham (13:31.756)
But he showed me humility. Now, yes, the Ranger captain, JV captain outranks the Sergeant Major. No, he doesn't. But later one night we were talking about something with Rick Merritt and we were all joking around. Donnie and I were in the jock and Sergeant Major put me in my place about something and I'll never forget that. And it embarrassed me.
He didn't do it publicly and stuff, but he took the time to correct me on something. And he probably doesn't even remember. Me and Sar Major stay in touch and remain one of his biggest fans. But it reminded me about humility and the importance of humility, no matter what position you're in. And so as I look back at this humble confidence thing, I think that's one of the key things that I took away from my time in the Ranger Regiment that I bring here to Samaritan's Purse.
There's a lot of answers I don't have here. And part of the reason why I left the army when I did, when God moved on me and it was time to leave the military, I left it 16 years. Everybody in the military knows that as a stupid time to leave. That's four years shy of retirement. But I knew God's hand had moved. And so if I stayed in the army a day longer, I'd be wrong. But I also wanted to come learn from my father. My father looks at grace differently than I did.
Ben Hunter (14:41.671)
Yeah
Ben Hunter (14:46.951)
Mm.
Edward Graham (14:55.135)
I needed to let my heart be broken and pierced by the things that break the heart of Jesus Christ, a certain tenderness. So I left to come learn. I'd rather have that education of four years. What if I got out after 20 and my dad passed away? I missed that education problem. I'd rather have those four years. And so I needed to humble myself. But what I've learned here at the ministry is the same thing I had at the Ranger Regiment, or even at our higher headquarters at Bragg when I worked there. I'm surrounded by talent. I don't have to know all the answers.
Ben Hunter (15:10.351)
Yeah.
Edward Graham (15:24.909)
Go find that talent. Give them, I love mission command. I was like, give them the broad left and right limits, a task and purpose. Give them the resources, do the job. Trust, but verify. I don't sit over their shoulder and micromanage this situation, but I need to be willing to get dirty with them when the time's appropriate, but also have to be able to stand back. That's the fires guy in me. I gotta be far enough away to be able to make decisions to move left and right.
Ben Hunter (15:25.253)
right.
Ben Hunter (15:49.956)
Right.
Edward Graham (15:53.836)
and to readjust. If I'm in the muck, it's hard to make those decisions. And so there's so much I took away from the Ranger Regiment in combat and working with talent like that that I brought here. I just, I'm so thankful for the talent. I call it slumming for Jesus. There's people here that could be doing great things and making a lot of money. But they've come to ministry because they felt a calling. My job's really easy. I always tell people the easiest job ever has a Ranger Company Commander. Man, that was an easy job.
Ben Hunter (15:55.238)
Hmm.
Ben Hunter (16:13.072)
Yeah.
Edward Graham (16:22.677)
You just have to let the team do it and do the work and what they were called for. And that's why I had you, had Brett Johnson as a first sergeant. Man, how can you fail when you have Brett Johnson as your first sergeant? Easiest job I ever had. It just let the race horse race.
Ben Hunter (16:36.912)
Yeah.
Right. Yeah. I, man, that is so good. And I tell people all the time by far, one of the highlights of my army, know, 24 years in the military, uh, almost 25 is my time with you, Brett Johnson and myself as the company command team, uh, in first range battalion. It just doesn't get any better than that. We had some amazing, amazing times. You know, I love one, you know, shout out to Brett Johnson. Uh, and
Edward Graham (17:08.683)
He's doing pretty well for himself.
Ben Hunter (17:09.798)
He's doing just fine By the way, I'm still I'm still seeing people comment and like the after that photo that we posted they posted of him and we you know said that he was not a meat eater and more of a salad eater, but
Edward Graham (17:22.101)
Yeah, sorry, he salads. But for your listeners, I Brett's about to be the 18th Airborne Corps Sergeant Major. So he just is leaving the 10th Mountain about to go be the 18th Airborne Corps. So he's doing pretty well.
Ben Hunter (17:28.208)
Yeah.
Ben Hunter (17:32.782)
He's a blessing to the army for sure. And then a shout out to Rick Merritt. You know, as you know, I'm back here, you working at Fort Benning and I have had a couple opportunities to run into him. In fact, I ran into him. Gosh, I think I saw him in Alaska too. He just all over the place these days. Every time I see him, you know, embraces me, tells me how much he's proud of me. you know, it's just, he's again, just one of those examples of a humble leader.
Edward Graham (17:49.623)
Yeah. Yeah.
Ben Hunter (18:03.13)
Who again, when I was, I will never forget when he put me in my place when I was enlisted and he was the Sergeant Major. Boy, he, he did a really good job of professionally correcting people. yeah, yeah, yeah.
Edward Graham (18:13.984)
Yeah, correcting. But he would do it to officers and he developed. He took the time because as he sits down, he looks back at the Ranger Regiment. That is part of his DNA. The legacy that lives on with Rick Merritt. And thus he took it on to, you know, he went on to be a four star Sergeant Major and Rick's obviously a living legend. But Sergeant Major, mean, I still seek out today and anytime I had a breakfast with him one time down on floor with him and Albaugh and Donnie, I'm sitting there.
Ben Hunter (18:28.869)
So true.
Edward Graham (18:44.566)
with three former RSMs, they're eating breakfast with me. They reached out to me and asked, let's link up, because I was speaking down at the SOCOM conference in the current role I'm in. And I'm like, man, how fortunate am I? And these are the people I can call when I have a question or a problem still to this day. But yeah, by far, he sat on my first board when I came in as a lieutenant. I remember the question he asked me.
Ben Hunter (18:59.332)
Right?
Edward Graham (19:13.214)
And then at the end of it he goes, no further questions. I'll never forget that. it.
Ben Hunter (19:16.134)
Great impersonation. love it. Yeah, he'll enjoy listening to this. In fact, when I posted about it on LinkedIn, he made a really nice comment. so looking forward to hearing from him after he listens to this. yeah, mean, you know, and for the listeners, know, one of the things that we highlight in the book over and over is the humble authority, which is exactly what we're talking about, right?
the humble authority that Jesus Christ had while he was on the earth. in a previous podcast, we were just talking about who would have ever imagined the savior of the world riding in on a donkey. The world thought that Jesus, that the savior was supposed to be something else. And when he was on earth, riding in on a colter donkey,
when in fact that was exactly the entire plan throughout scripture as we see from the Old Testament to the New Testament. you know again just over and over Jesus shows us the perfect example of humble authority on earth and you know it's it's counterintuitive especially for military you know strong military leadership to you know be humble but it is such an important aspect of leadership and I just I pray that the listeners the young leaders
I always hope and pray that young military officers or even NCOs get a chance to listen to this podcast, read the book, to learn that there is a way to have authority but be humble in your leadership that is super impactful to the people who are under your authority. Yeah, so, I mean, Ed, you hit up actually a couple of the questions there.
that I had for you, but one of the highlights in the book is the importance of endurance. You know, I think as leaders, we can get into this fast-paced burnout type of mentality. And, you know, we see through Jesus's example, patience and endurance and, you know, not yet, not yet, and just continuing to shape and mold His disciples as a leader. And, you know, what helps leaders maintain that? From your
Ben Hunter (21:36.056)
perspective and what you've seen, like being able to maintain endurance in leadership, being steady and fruitful under pressure. What are some ways that you've seen that work maybe in others or what you've been able to learn to do as a leader?
Edward Graham (21:54.581)
Yeah, that's a great question. thought about, when you asked that came to mind when Hurricane Helene hit Western North Carolina, hits my hometown. You know, it took me that morning. I live like two miles from here. I probably should have ran in, but it took me an hour and a half to get to work because I was dragging trees out with my truck and crossing what were streams or rivers now, you know, to get here. And I think about our staff and how hard we've worked.
then and since then, you know, I had to ask the team, hey, right now I need you to sprint and we're gonna sprint for a while. And we've had to have the endurance and the repetition to be able to sprint as long as we did, but I can't keep sprinting at some point. I have to put the race horse up. have to get it oats and water and clean it and put it in the barn for a while and let it rest. Then we have to go into marathon mode. Those are all things I learned in the Ranger Regiment as we were doing the GWOT You know, we would
go over for four months, come home for six months, go over, and let's be honest, when you're home, we weren't really home. We were always told when we came back, we had that two week leave, use it well. And then before we went over, we had two week leave, use it well, you know, with your family. But I thought about endurance and you know, that what I learned from then and how to make sure I took care of my Rangers, because I want them to re-enlist, I want them to stay in. When I came in as a young lieutenant, the person running
Then it was called Rope, you know, before he came up with the terms of RAS 1 and RAS 2, but I was in Rope and Jesse Navarro, then Sergeant First Class Jesse Navarro was in charge of, yeah. So I love Jesse and Jesse was so good, but I remember he held me down one time, just, you know, not physically, but in the corner as I was leaving. He's like, just remember sir, you know, we live here. You're talking about it's a heavily enlisted led organization. He's like, we live here. You come and go. And,
Ben Hunter (23:24.526)
Right. Yep.
Ben Hunter (23:32.141)
I just talked to him the other day.
Ben Hunter (23:51.393)
Hmm.
Edward Graham (23:52.575)
And that always stuck with me. And I always wanted to keep coming back, but that wasn't a sure thing. And so, yeah, I spent most of my career there, but officers come and go. And how do I encourage those guys and put them up and keep them in the fight? And when they get hurt and they get tired and their families are going through it and the struggle. those lessons have, well, I think that I picked up in the Ranger, I tried to have brought here.
But I think the biggest thing to endurance, it's a very dirty word in the Ranger Regiment. It's a very dirty word, period, in special operations in the military, and it's called surrender. I think to truly endure, you have to surrender. You have to put everything at the foot of the cross. You have to put your life, your heart, you have to give it to the Lord. You talk about Jesus and riding on the donkey, the humility. I also think about when Jesus was beaten.
Ben Hunter (24:32.149)
Mmm.
Edward Graham (24:49.652)
and whipped and scored in front of him. He had the crown of thorns on him and everybody was ridiculing him and the fact that he was placed between two prisoners. But the one person I really look forward to meeting in life and when I get to heaven is that other prisoner that he rebuked the one prisoner and he believed. He did nothing. He wasn't baptized. He didn't go back and tell anyone else about Christ. He didn't lead anyone else to the Lord in his physical life.
Ben Hunter (24:53.196)
Mm.
Ben Hunter (25:04.353)
Right.
Edward Graham (25:16.876)
He just surrendered his and he spent the rest of the time in eternity because he believed and accepted through faith. And I think about Jesus having the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords being whipped, bleeding to death and dying, having that conversation with that man, that man that did deserve death. And so in my own humility here, I've learned to be able to surrender those memories, those things we were part of. People ask me all the time, do you have PTSD? I was like, I think I have PTS. Sounds, smells, like burning hair.
will trigger a certain memory. You know, sometimes when I'm hunting and I'm cleaning out an animal, think certain memories, but I don't struggle. I don't have the disorder part of it. I don't think because in my faith and walk, I've learned to surrender and put those things at the foot of the and it's a daily surrender. But I think the key to endurance is that surrender piece. And that also goes back to professionally. This is where I did struggle when I did get out. I struggled and it was my decision to get out, but I struggled.
Ben Hunter (25:45.868)
Yeah. Yeah.
Edward Graham (26:15.722)
because I realized the Ranger Regiment had done a pretty good job at telling me who I was, what success looked like. If you want to be successful as an officer, you gotta be an XO, be the platoon leader, be the XO, come back, be AS3 or something like that, and be the company commander, and then you wanna come back and you gotta be Battalion S3 and XO, then the Regimental 3 or XO, or go off and be one of the kingmaker jobs at A to use the soccer, something like that. I believe that.
Ben Hunter (26:45.558)
Yeah.
Edward Graham (26:45.644)
I also believe that if you had asked me seven years ago, who are you? I'd have been like, well, you're blind. It says right there, you know, I got scrolls on both sides. I got a tambourine. I'm an Army Ranger. And that's not my identity. If we leave our careers thinking that, we're going to leave broken and confused about what our purpose is. And so part of that endurance, I had to learn, hey, Lord, that tan beret is yours. That career is yours.
I've got my old guidons and stuff up in my office. call it my graveyard. I'm proud of it. But I hadn't surrendered that. And so I wasn't enduring very well when I got out the Army because I never surrendered that identity. And so to your listeners, if you haven't surrendered your life to Christ, you're not going to succeed. mean, there is no success in life without Christ.
Ben Hunter (27:27.583)
Hmm.
Edward Graham (27:39.093)
And then you got to truly mean and surrender everything and what you invest in. So I wasn't rich. I was rich in family, but I wasn't rich financially. I didn't have things of the world necessarily, no more than any other officer in the military. But my identity was in that stinking tambourine in that scroll. And I was wrong for that. I was.
Ben Hunter (27:39.422)
Amen.
Ben Hunter (28:05.577)
Yeah. And so I am so glad you brought that one up. So I did, we did an episode and, you know, one of the things I talked about when we were going over kind of an intro of the three of us that authored the book and kind of our experience, in the military. And one of the things I highlighted was, my post company command time when I, became so injured, I was debilitated. was in the bed.
I had just finished a very successful two years in command. I was getting ready to go to Duke University as a Downing Scholar and I got my back injury and I was bedridden. So I went from number one company commander in the division to I can't even get out of the bed to go to the restroom. My wife has to change. And that was an identity crisis for me. I was like, I am an army ranger leader and now I can't even get out of bed. And I just...
bring that back up from that podcast episode we did, I have gotten more comments and feedback from my discussion about my identity and going from hero to zero and how God used that for me to see my true identity in Christ, not in the army or as an ranger. And the amount of feedback that I got from people I never thought would have listened or saw, you know, the,
you know, little reel on Instagram. That I feel like is something, is something that, you know, folks like us have an opportunity that Jesus can use us to talk about that more and more about folks who are getting out of the army, who are at the tail end of their career, who have just spent their life as an army ranger or leader, and all of a sudden that's not there anymore.
and what is their identity in life? And so it was just an opportunity to say, ooh, wow, that is a hot button, that's a trigger, that is something we need to continue to talk about, about having your identity in Christ, not in what you do. Yeah, so good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Edward Graham (30:09.228)
You're all gonna get out. congratulations, by the way, on your promotion. I can't be more proud of you, but at some point, matter of fact, you and I are the same rank now, finally, Lieutenant Colonels, but you're gonna be at a point here where you're getting out. You your brother Ian got out, but I've talked to so many friends, and they're not all soft guys, but they're all kind of strength. What is next?
Ben Hunter (30:15.712)
I thought...
Ben Hunter (30:21.044)
Hahaha.
Ben Hunter (30:27.828)
Yeah. Yeah.
Edward Graham (30:38.888)
And or I want a job that has meaning and per even guys that aren't believers and have not put their trust in Christ. I talked to them and they want to find a job with purpose and they struggle with that. They really do. So it's going to come. I don't care if you're lieutenant and you get out as a captain or you're that lieutenant right now. And you're like, I want to make a career out of it. I wanted to make a career at it after being my first ranger job.
This is what I want to do. I wanted to be a Ranger Battalion Commander. God had other plans. It just took me a second to realize that. And don't get me wrong, God used the Ranger Regiment and it was his timing when I got out at 16 years. like that light switch flipped overnight. So I don't regret any of my timeline. You know, God used every minute of it to shape and mold me. But there maybe I just needed a lot more shaping and molding than other people. I needed more Rick Merritt's
Ben Hunter (31:21.065)
Yeah. Right.
Edward Graham (31:32.766)
and corrected me and helped me along the way. But it's, once I surrendered that, like Samaritan's Purse, it like opened up a whole new like leadership path for me here. And that's why I call those guidons and everything I got up in my outfit. That's my graveyard. You know, it was the Lord's all along and I had to give that to him.
Ben Hunter (31:42.654)
Right.
Ben Hunter (31:54.194)
Yeah, no, that's good. And it's funny, know, Peyton Holtz and I were talking, he's been very busy lately. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, him and I were talking about surrendering, you know, in the Ranger Creed, it literally says, surrender is not a Ranger word, right? And so how do you, you know, how do you recite that every single day in the Ranger Regiment, but then, you know, surrender your entire life and decisions and things that go on, you know, to Christ.
Edward Graham (31:59.853)
Oh yeah, I saw Peyton recently. It was good to catch up with him.
Edward Graham (32:11.168)
Yeah.
Ben Hunter (32:23.934)
That's a dichotomy that can be difficult for folks like us over the years. Yeah.
Edward Graham (32:29.824)
Yeah. You know, I still, I can recite the Ranger Creed right now. And it's, I love the Creed and it was my life. And I've gone back for ceremonies or like my brother-in-law, Colonel Webb's change of command, you know, was battalion commander in the Ranger Regiment. Couldn't be more proud of him. We were best friends at West Point. That's how I met my wife. We grew up in the Rangers together. We commanded together at 175 at the same time. But as I go back to these ceremonies, I had so much pride.
Ben Hunter (32:34.226)
Right.
Edward Graham (32:57.54)
and excitement. I love that feeling, but that one part, surrender is not a ranger word. And yeah, on the battlefield. But in your own lives, that's my encouragement to these guys, you've got to surrender it all, or it's going to leave you broken.
Ben Hunter (33:12.552)
Yeah, Yeah, no, it's so true. So with our time left, and you know, first of all, man, this has been a very fruitful conversation for me. And I'm hopeful that it's, you know, impactful and fruitful for those listening. But you know, kind of to wrap it up with a final question, you know, to our target audience that I see is, well, you know, folks, I talked to the book, it's been amazing. And even people have said that
listening to the podcast that I never thought have come up to me and said, man, keep the podcast going. This is amazing stuff is, know, everything from, you know, a 70 year old grandfather who has come up to me and said, man, I love your book. I use it as a devotion every morning. I'm using it now in a prayer breakfast with future Christian athletes in our area. like, man, I never thought of that, you know, to our target audience of young
know, upcoming leaders in the military or, you know, college students who are, you know, might find themselves in a leadership position as they begin to, you know, come out of college and things like that. What advice would you give young leaders seeking to lead with conviction, humility, and faith? You know, from your experience in the military and now leading the organization of Samaritan's Purse, you know, conviction, being humble, and, you
having strong faith, what does that look like for young leaders coming up? What advice would you give them?
Edward Graham (34:48.384)
Yeah, awesome question. And it's kind of simple, but I'll explain a little bit more on why. Read the Word of God and read it every day. But my grandfather held up the Bible when I was a kid and I didn't understand it. And people always ask me, I want a Billy Graham story. And so my grandfather, obviously a famous preacher and evangelist, it came up on my first board, it came up on my second board.
Ben Hunter (34:58.555)
Amen.
Edward Graham (35:16.182)
The only board that never came on the rant was my last one. I think by then they all knew who I was and by that time they're all Battalion commanders. you know, that's one of those questions where I think Rick Merritt was trying to divert it from the first board to get it off, get back on subject. But he did ask me a question about it. My grandfather held up the Bible though when I was 14. He goes, Edward, I don't understand every word of it. Now this is a man that had most of it memorized.
But he goes, I don't understand every word of it, I accept by faith that every word of it's true. By faith. So to the audience, you have to believe every word of it's true. Even parts you may not like or society doesn't like, maybe even members of your own chain of command don't like. Every word of it's true. And if you believe in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, that means you also believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
So that also means you have to believe that Jesus Christ was at Sodom and Gomorrah. You got to understand who Jesus is and His love and His tenderness. But as I look back, I have a lot of failures in life. I wish I'd read scripture more. I wish there was power in the word. You talk about red letter. I love how you name this. Red letter leadership.
It means from the, you know, for maybe you're new to this, you're just listening, the red letters are the words of Jesus in the New Testament. But you know, there's also red letters. My dad went back and made a, the Jews don't believe in the New Testament, but they read the Old Testament. They take books from it. So my dad went back and he put red letters every time it mentioned the coming of the Son, the Savior.
Ben Hunter (37:05.771)
I love it.
Edward Graham (37:06.482)
And so it mentions that. so you wouldn't put those in red letters. And I thought that was a great idea. it's read in Israel. They're hungry for it, I believe. But I look back and I wish I had read and studied and shared. it might not, like I don't have to give scripture just like, hey, know, Matthew and start quoting the verse, but I can speak Jesus. can quote. And if I have it in my heart, those red letters come out.
and I wish I had read it and shared it more. You know, I can't evangelize in front of the company. I understand that. That's not what they ask of me. But what I always called it as a leader, earn the knock at the door. And so when the Ranger E5 comes and knocks on the door, then I was able to share my faith. And they're like, sir, my wife left me. Sir, I'm in financial trouble. Sir, I need help, you know, to stop drinking or I'm hooked on painkillers.
These are examples of conversations I had many times with rangers. But when they knock at the door, that's a private conversation and I'm allowed to share anything with them. And to this day, I still get the phone calls from certain rangers. They tell me, hey, my son's graduating high school, sir, or my son, hey, just accepted Christ, or hey, sir, the marriage is doing awesome. We've got things back on track. Those are all examples of phone calls that I've gotten from guys that...
Ben Hunter (38:08.132)
Right.
Edward Graham (38:33.6)
had different conversations years before. So I've seen the success in the triumphs, but I still get the calls about the tragedies. And those are hard conversations. But today I tried to share more gospel with them in scripture than I ever did before. And so to your listeners, believe every word of it to be true, except by faith that every red word is true. And read it more, especially when you're command, when you're staff.
Ben Hunter (38:41.754)
Hmm.
Ben Hunter (38:56.504)
Love it. Love it.
Edward Graham (39:02.732)
When you're prepping whether you're at school, read the Word of God. Always find time. And when my life is not going the way it should, it's always because I'm not in the Word.
Ben Hunter (39:11.834)
So good Ed, so good. So audience out there, know, when I think about to Ed's point, you know, being confident, I am most confident when I open the Word of God and I am consistently reading and learning from the Word of God. When I think about humility, I am the most humble when I am reading the Word of God, when I'm consistently
in the Word and journaling the Word and what is it meaning in my life at that point in time? And when do I have the most faith? I have the most faith when I'm in the Word, when I'm reading and feel close to God. So for the listeners out there, the young leaders that we are really trying to help out as you grow in your leadership experience, open the Word, get into the Bible, use the Red Letter Leadership Book. It literally goes through the entire
gospel word for word and how we can pull different ways that Jesus led on the earth and how we can be more like him in our leadership. So Ed, with that, you know, this was as awesome as I thought it was going to be or knew it was going to be and I'm excited to hear some feedback from folks and I'm excited about continuing to watch your success.
and Samaritan's Purse success and I can't thank you enough for coming on the podcast with me. This was fun, brother.
Edward Graham (40:43.916)
This is great and I'm so proud of you. I appreciate you being bold with the Word of God and I appreciate you being patient with me all those years ago. But I always tell people, the hunters, you and your brother and your wives, they're brothers and sisters to me. And that's hard for some people to understand, but when you literally have blood together, I remember running after Kap got hurt and running to that bridge and sitting up there with you as we were controlling the pink team flying around and
you're providing overwatch, and I remember your face and how you took charge and watch you led. You've always been taking charge ever since. I couldn't be more proud of you.
Ben Hunter (41:21.89)
Awesome, brother. Thanks, appreciate you.
Edward Graham (41:24.48)
See you buddy.
