Jordan Ames (00:02.573)
Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Red Letter Leadership Podcast where we are drawing lessons from the gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, so that we can grow closer in our walk with Jesus as well as grow in our leadership abilities and be more Christ-like as leaders. You could probably tell by my voice that I'm struggling a little bit with a...
A sore throat I had about a week and a half ago. I'm still getting over that. Interestingly enough, we're going to talk about Zachariah, and God actually muted him. So hopefully, I've done nothing that God is trying to mute me. But yeah, so I'm with Eric Albright. I'll let him shout out.
Eric Albright (00:40.952)
Imagine that.
Eric Albright (00:49.134)
that you're aware of.
Eric Albright (00:56.75)
Hey fellas, how are ya? Ladies out, leaders, fellas, ladies and leaders out there, it's good to be back here with you again. You know, I haven't been on for a few episodes, maybe two or three, but here we are again, Jordan, ready to talk about it, Glad to be back, glad to be here, and get after it.
Jordan Ames (01:02.455)
Yeah, there you go.
Jordan Ames (01:16.483)
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Man, it's good to have you on and chat a little bit. This has been a topic that has really convicted me over the past, I don't know, six months to a year. We're going to be talking about defining reality and what that means as leaders. And before we really get into the discussion of what that means, we also want to.
define what the word reality means. Because as people of faith, as people who say that we trust God, that we have faith in Jesus, there's many times throughout just the Gospels, but certainly throughout the whole Bible, where God speaks a new reality of what he wants to do in the lives of individuals or a group of people, you know, taking the Israelites into the promised land.
Jesus speaking that over Jerry's and and telling Jerry's to believe after his daughter just died Not Jerry is not knowing what Jesus is even talking about. You know, there's there's several situations Throughout scripture where God is speaking a reality that we can't see so again, this is this is something that God's really been working in my life and I probably said in in other episodes, but I've learned and I heard it on a
another YouTube video podcast thing. The guy was saying that the spiritual realm is reality and the natural realm is only a manifestation of that reality. And I mean, when you think about that, it's so true. Like God is working in our lives. The enemy wants to attack us. He wants to prevent us from growing in that relationship, doing, taking a direction God wants to take us. So anytime,
Eric Albright (02:59.265)
Interesting.
Jordan Ames (03:14.327)
that we are moving towards God, that we're trying to follow him, we're going to face that opposition. And it comes out, it manifests itself in what we can see, what we can touch, the relationships that we have. And so that's kind of what we're gonna dig in today and of course focus from a leadership perspective what that looks like. So our two main characters today is not even Jesus, it's
his mother Mary, and then Mary's relative Elizabeth, her husband Zachariah. So some of you may know the story of the birth of Jesus, but I'm gonna read out of Luke 1. I'll probably start with, I'll start with verse 28. So it says, angel went to her, went to Mary, and said, greetings, you who are highly favored. The Lord is with you. Mary was greatly troubled at his words.
and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. But the angel said to her, and this is the angel Gabriel, do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God. You will be with child and give birth to a son and you are to give him the name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the son of the most high. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever. His kingdom will never end.
And now this is Mary's response in verse 34. How will this be, Mary asked the angel, since I am a virgin? I'm gonna stop there and I'm not gonna read the whole conversation that Gabriel gave to Zachariah about six months before this, when Zachariah as a priest, he was going into the temple, I guess it was.
you know, his turn to do that practice, go into the temple and burn incense in front of the Lord. Well, during that time, Gabriel came to him and speaking that his wife, though she is old age, will conceive and give birth to a son. And Gabriel explains what this son, who ends up being John the Baptist, what his purpose is. Well, Zacharias' response was much different than Mary's. Okay, Zacharias said in verse Luke,
Jordan Ames (05:37.312)
or in Luke 1 verse 18, he asked the angel, how can I be sure of this? I am an old man and my wife is well along in years. And then of course, Gabriel responded, I stand in the presence of God and I have been sent to speak to you and to tell you this good news and you will be silent and not able to speak until the day this happens. So he was pretty much.
punished because of his doubt. He asked the angel from a position of doubting that all these good things the angel was telling him is real. So he questioned that reality that the angel was given to him. And what's different about Mary's question was it was from a position of faith and seeking clarity. You see, Mary said, how will this be?
since I am a virgin. That's a legitimate, nowhere in history before or after has a woman, a virgin woman given birth to a son or daughter. So that's a legitimate, like just how will this be? Of course, God could have explained in different ways, but the angel said, the Holy Spirit will come upon you and the power of the most high will overshadow you.
And then jumping into verse 37, the angel says, or for nothing is impossible with God. And I love that because what we see as possible is mostly what we see, what we observe, the reality in front of us. And even as Christians, I know I have, like I said, has been convicting me over the months. We wanna cast vision, we wanna...
look at the future based on present reality or past experiences. And that's not a bad thing. But when it comes to faith and going in a direction that God wants to take us, I think that's when we need to say, all right, trust God in that direction, cast that vision, trust God that he's going to take us there, start taking steps of faith.
Jordan Ames (08:02.529)
start taking the action steps, and certainly examine our current reality, because that's where we're starting. That's our starting point. But we don't want to focus so much on our current reality that we miss the reality that God wants to take us into. So with that, want to bring in Eric with some discussion on this.
And so I was just thinking of how leaders try to define a current reality. And also, we have the responsibility to, I think I've heard it said by John Maxwell. I know I've seen it in a bunch of his books. But he says leaders see more and before. And actually, I'm going turn to John 14 real quick, read one verse. I was given a message at my church this, when was it?
Eric Albright (08:50.488)
Say that again.
Jordan Ames (08:58.835)
week ago and I read out of this and it really caught me as I was preparing the message but John 14 29 Jesus at the Last Supper and he's telling his disciples I have told you now before it happens so that when it does happen you will believe and that verse right there just shows how Jesus is providing a vision of a new reality he's about to take these disciples into
Which of course he sees clearly, but they don't. And he's telling them as their leader, he's telling them what's going to happen so that when it does, they believe. And I think as leaders, we need to be doing the same thing. And so, let me ask you Eric, how do we distinguish between our current operational reality and the reality God may be calling us towards?
Because as leaders, we have followers, and they are expecting us to not just be random dreamers and just hoping for whatever. We have to be real about it. How can we be real about those two things?
Eric Albright (10:13.39)
Well that's a good question Jordan and I think it probably gets separated into two camps. You've got your camp full of folks you surround yourself with. We'll call it your family camp. And you've got which is your faith based camp or your faith based fellow leaders within the church or whoever's in your fellowship groups, right? Men's group, women's group, whatever the thing is who you surround yourself by. That's camp A. Camp B is your secular camp. And so the secular camp is the workplace folks who may or may not
believers but you can't their work your worldview you can't use your worldview to describe events to them the same way you can with your inner circle family or faith groups that makes sense so far so I think you know how do you define reality with your let's go with group a your faith group I you frame it to them is like as they know and understand we we are not always in full he doesn't God doesn't put things in full
Jordan Ames (10:53.694)
That's great point.
Eric Albright (11:13.324)
view for us all the time. And it's a lot of times folks are going to try to understand, you use that to understand the tragedy because why does he, why did the age-old question that we're not going to be able to answer is why does evil exist? Why does he allow evil to exist? The best answer I can come up with is well, it shows you can't have light without understanding the dark, right? In fact, what I heard it was explained as, we might've mentioned it on this podcast before, but dark isn't as standalone
Jordan Ames (11:34.741)
after you.
Eric Albright (11:43.136)
entity. The only thing dark is, is the absence of light. Right? And so the and the only thing that evil is, is the absence of God. And so when he's not there, or you don't allow him to, you're like those things can happen, right? It's the absence of, it's not its own entity standing up itself. It's cold isn't its own standalone, it's the absence of heat. Right? Because the second heat shows up, it takes over from the cold. It's the same type of perspective. And so but anyways, that's how you know, try to
Jordan Ames (11:48.077)
Yeah.
Eric Albright (12:13.04)
understand why bad things happen. But for folks, how do you have them understand reality for the future? Look, we don't pretend, and the Bible tells us, these things you will not know. Look at the book of Revelation. You will not understand, or they cannot understand. He tells John, when he's writing the book of Revelation, do not include that. They will not understand it. Right? And so there are things, in fact, as written, that exist outside of our understanding of scope. And you said something
earlier that was C, you said we may not see it. I would say we generally do see the things, like for example, John the Baptist was born so we can see it, but we may still not understand it. Like Mary at first, she sees that she became pregnant, like that became evident, but she doesn't necessarily understand it. So a lot of times, and that's how we see things that are happening in our lives, but we don't understand the framework.
Jordan Ames (12:55.543)
Mm-hmm.
Eric Albright (13:12.97)
in context for why they are occurring and to and you know the way that you describe I would recommend we describe that to our our faith circles family friends is look take an instance in your life in which tragedy occurred okay what good has come from that and the name the thing somebody you had a conversation with about it or there's a silver lining there or another spot it's like okay did you understand that in the midst of that trauma no but do you understand it now yes if I wouldn't have gone through that
Thank
Now, then I wouldn't have been to where I'm at today. Like in our faith journeys, right Jordan? Like if we wouldn't have experienced tragedy before, we may not be where we're at today. And so in that context, we now have a broader and more clear understanding of those events, but that's where it comes down to the capital T thing. You gotta trust, man. You gotta trust it, right? And it also comes down to humility, which is one of the most important leadership traits. It's like, remember this, it's not about you. Stop thinking you have to have this figured out and allow him to take the lead.
circles and the second half of that is the secular circle in my opinion and the secular circle is and you just got it for them it's more of a you get it like what in the original question was what why do things or how do we explain to them things that happen was that the original question
Jordan Ames (14:35.171)
There was how do we distinguish between the current reality and the reality God may be calling us toward. And of course, I love the perspective you're bringing because certainly I'm sure most of our listeners, but like the work of the church is not done behind the church wall or within the church walls, right? The work of the church is done outside the church walls, which in large part,
Eric Albright (14:45.937)
I see. Yeah.
Jordan Ames (15:04.895)
is in a secular environment. right away, you started off by talking about a secular environment, which I think is great. And it's certainly a great perspective, because yeah, there's people on our team. They might not share our faith. And so how do we lead, Christ-centered leaders, cast vision, take our team, organization, whatever our responsibilities, like,
Eric Albright (15:21.51)
yeah.
Jordan Ames (15:34.371)
see more and before how do we do that with the direction God is taking us but God is going to give us a vision that we can walk in that is going to allow us to have a testimony to reach some of those people on our team people external to our team and that's what it's all about is people seeing him.
Eric Albright (15:37.197)
Yeah.
Eric Albright (15:55.406)
Yeah, I agree. And so how do you lead? We just talked with the familial circle, but in the secular world, I think the way that you describe or ascribe that vision to them so they trust the outcome is you can, it's into the delivery, meaning trust the process. And if you deliver it in a way that's aligned with the fruits of the spirit, I always anchor on that. Like that is the outcome of a faith-based leader, fruits of the spirit. So if you deliver that vision you have for your team with
Jordan Ames (16:09.059)
Mm-hmm.
Jordan Ames (16:17.567)
that's great. Yeah. Yeah, that's spot on.
Eric Albright (16:25.45)
love, joy, peace, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control, not all at the same time, but inside of those parameters, they will naturally respond positively, and then they will trust you to lead them to whatever the thing is, It doesn't mean you're always gonna get it right, but if you approach everything with that lens and from that lens, and you deliver it through that lens, I have a hard time finding a spot in which you'll be wrong, in the way it was.
Jordan Ames (16:33.9)
Mm-hmm.
Jordan Ames (16:41.047)
Yeah.
Eric Albright (16:55.444)
presented.
Jordan Ames (16:56.685)
Yeah, that's great. I love how you brought trust into this because that's so huge. People aren't going to, I think a lot of civilians specifically think that military leadership, and I might have said this on episode, I feel like I've said this on episode, but think military leadership is easy because people just have to do what they're told in the military. I'm like, yes, they do, but there's a trust factor that...
Eric Albright (17:18.989)
Yeah.
Jordan Ames (17:25.193)
has to be applied.
Eric Albright (17:26.122)
and
Well exactly, are you a manager or are a leader? It comes back to transactional or transformational. You have the, and this comes down to different types of power, right? Positional power, influential power, like there's different types of power, right? Charismatic power, because you know, you have that it. And so it really, that's, sorry, I jumped, I didn't mean to jump on you if you weren't finished, but you have absolutely the power and authority to be a transactional leader every day because the military gives that.
Jordan Ames (17:30.481)
and
Yeah.
Jordan Ames (17:43.565)
Yeah.
Jordan Ames (17:47.947)
No, that's all right.
Eric Albright (17:57.19)
to you. What it doesn't give to you is the credibility aspect of it to have people want to follow you. They will follow you because they have to. You need to get them to follow you because they want to and that's the difference between going from good to great. You need to find a way to be transformative, not just transactional. And that's what we have this podcast for is we help ourselves, it's good for us to, to remember, to bridge the transactional to transformational gap.
Jordan Ames (17:57.987)
Mm-hmm.
Eric Albright (18:27.804)
Right? You can read all the books you want and it'll tell you how to be a transactional manager. But if you want to be a leader, if you want to inspire change, you've got the transition to the transforma- I didn't mean to say both those same words, but you've got to move to the transformational realm of leadership. And then you're going to see people want, they're going to seek after you, want your advice, they're going to come to you. You don't have to go find them. That's the difference, Jordan.
Jordan Ames (18:28.608)
Absolutely.
Jordan Ames (18:54.627)
Which is exactly Jesus' whole life in ministry. People came to him because of who he was and what he was doing. Yeah, that's great.
Eric Albright (18:59.574)
Yes.
Jordan Ames (19:10.819)
We already talked a little bit, my little monologue there about the difference in Mary and Zachariah and how one, Zachariah of course questioned with doubt and Mary questioned for clarity.
Eric Albright (19:26.83)
Well, I think that's important there too Jordan because we you did touch on it But let's pull the thread there a little bit right because on their face those two comments Could be interpreted differently okay, and so there comes to like the art of challenging Authority or is it the art the art of taking orders. I think is a better way to describe it I mean for real because let's go Zachariah first. He said how shall I know this for I am an old man
Jordan Ames (19:32.631)
Yeah, yeah, go for it.
Jordan Ames (19:49.409)
Yeah, it's good.
Eric Albright (19:56.796)
and my wife is advanced in years." End quote. That's it. So on his face, you'd be like, huh, how? It doesn't seem like he's being super aggressive with Gabriel, but he's, could. No.
Jordan Ames (20:07.511)
Yeah, he's not like belligerent, you know, he's not, yeah.
Eric Albright (20:12.93)
He's in the temple. mean, they're expecting to see cool things in there, I think, from the day. Like, they're spoken to. God's in there. Ark. And so, then, Mary's was...
Jordan Ames (20:20.408)
Yeah.
Eric Albright (20:25.154)
How will this be since I am a virgin? So his question was, how shall I know this? And his was, how will this be? Correction. His was, how shall I know this? And hers was, how will this be? They seem similar. so how can we talk to folks out there about, like, let's say you were to get an order at work or your boss tells you to do something, but you're not quite sure you understand it. How can you deliver a response where it won't be lost in translation as to whether you're
Jordan Ames (20:36.087)
Yeah.
Eric Albright (20:55.088)
Challenging it or you're not because these didn't seem challenging but Gabriel very clearly says to Zechariah Because you did not believe my words So he interpreted as a challenge did not say that to Mary and so how do you discern that and how do you how do you frame that as a? Follower because if you're be a leader you need to be a follower and you're gonna have orders, right?
Jordan Ames (21:18.595)
Yeah, well I think the difference to me the big difference here obviously is faith whereas of course I'm thinking too on you know what Samuel told David's family. like the Lord looks at the heart. Man looks at the outward appearance. The Lord looks at the heart. So we may see these as very similar in their questions but the Lord knows the heart, right?
Eric Albright (21:40.344)
Good point.
Jordan Ames (21:48.204)
He knows Mary's heart posture and he knows Zachariah's heart posture. So I think that's a huge difference. But really for us as leaders, when somebody's seeking clarification, it is our responsibility to provide that. To provide, even if we're like, look, this is a new vision, this is.
Eric Albright (21:53.42)
Great point.
Jordan Ames (22:13.205)
Maybe it's something that's still getting worked out, getting defined. So maybe we don't have those clarifying answers yet, but it's our responsibility as leaders to provide that, to work through getting clarity on the vision, defining it, and communicating that to our team. Yeah, the whole like, do it because I said so. No, that's like you're saying.
Eric Albright (22:39.394)
Yeah, that's a good point. And I have a couple thoughts. That's really good, Jordan. And I'm looking at it from more of a follower perspective. To be able to take that message and what you said earlier, how do you translate that into coherent or cogent guidance? You've got to understand it first.
And clearly Zechariah wasn't going to be able to understand it and therefore he was going to cause some challenges to it so he muted him for a few months. But as a follower, you got to take the message from the boss and you got to translate that to the folks that work for you. And so it will come off as one of two ways. And it will come off as a challenging response to your boss or it will come off as an help me understand it boss. And it all comes down to framing.
Jordan Ames (23:06.755)
Yeah.
Jordan Ames (23:28.856)
Mm
Eric Albright (23:29.328)
and it all comes down to intent. So you gotta find a way where you can come off and, okay, I understand and I will carry that water forward. Can you just help me understand these few points and clarify here so that can make sure I deliver this message clearly? And they will always, I can't see a situation which they wouldn't respond favorably to that. Number one. Number two. and it goes to your subordinates. And here's a little toolkit for the folks. Is,
This, you guys, we are also gonna face like challenges to our authority, call it, or folks that are difficult, or somebody makes a mistake, or does something that is either a, it's a violation of policy, ethics, or law, at some degree.
Jordan Ames (24:15.442)
Mm-hmm.
Eric Albright (24:16.058)
Really we like like Gabriel that you just said is maybe think of this Gabriel was doing with Zechariah He was he understood his heart and he understood intent and that's important for us to clarify and to parse out too and we're When we have to deal with the situation from somebody who did something they should not have done our options are fire them our options are counsel them our options are ignore it which is usually never advised but
For them, that's a tool I've learned over the years is like, let's first judge whether or not it was malicious. Let's judge intent. Did they do this on purpose or was it an honest mistake? And is it a failure in attitude or a failure in ability? If it's a malicious, it's probably a failure in attitude. And then you may want to make the move to remove them from the program, right? But if it was a failure in ability, that's probably now my fault.
Jordan Ames (24:52.003)
Right.
Jordan Ames (25:07.627)
Right.
Eric Albright (25:13.508)
Because I haven't trained that person and so this is something where if it's not malicious It's an ability thing and it was never a Mal intent then I'm gonna approach that differently Than the other then can the the converse option and so it's up to us is you use that discernment similar You know Gabriel shows us that here and two very similar responses. He is able to discern intent and responds differently
Jordan Ames (25:15.949)
Yeah.
Eric Albright (25:42.202)
And so he puts some handcuffs quote unquote on Zechariah and for Mary he's like, all right, let's sit down and talk about this and let me explain it to you. And that's a great example for us as well in the workplace or in the family faith based world, Jordan.
Jordan Ames (25:43.543)
Yeah.
Jordan Ames (25:58.754)
Yeah. And as you were finishing up there, I just think about how gracious God is.
with someone like Zachariah, who clearly expressed doubt, but yet God didn't remove him from the story. He still used him for the exact same thing he was planning on using him all along. And to me, that gives me hope, because when I doubt something, and then months later,
Eric Albright (26:16.75)
Good point. He was part of the plan.
Eric Albright (26:29.485)
Yeah.
Jordan Ames (26:33.601)
God's still with me in that and waiting for me to catch on and start moving forward. I'm like, his grace, his patience is overwhelming. He's unfailing love. Well, let's.
Eric Albright (26:38.764)
a great point.
Jordan Ames (26:50.017)
Let's talk a little bit about clarity. I want to read this statement to you. And then we can talk about it little bit. But vision without clarity creates confusion. Clarity without vision creates stagnation. So we must, as leaders, must define both our starting point and the destination that we're going to.
Eric Albright (26:57.038)
Okay.
Eric Albright (27:09.675)
Mm-hmm.
Eric Albright (27:17.422)
Sure.
Jordan Ames (27:21.458)
So it's very easy to, I was saying earlier, it's very easy to get like tunnel vision on our starting point because that's the reality we see right now. I like to explain it to people. I think as followers of Christ, leaders in the faith,
We need to be casting the vision, establishing that destination God's taking us to first and then looking at our starting point, analyzing our position. I like to use the analogy of navigation and GPS. You can get anywhere in the world, anywhere.
From where you are right now, from your current location, you can go anywhere in the world. The difference is how you're actually going to get there. So if I say, I want to travel to Australia, but I can't yet because I'm not in California, well, that doesn't make sense. I start in Pennsylvania, where I am right now, and I
take a route to California and then okay then I go to Australia. So my point is when we get tunnel vision on where we are and we let that dictate where God's taking us I think that's where we start letting the doubt creep in. See Zachariah was focused on his current position right his current location if you will. Yeah yeah exactly.
Eric Albright (28:53.23)
Well that goes back to making it about us. Yeah. If we're focused on us, that's where the confusion steps in.
Jordan Ames (29:01.251)
So let me ask you this, what are practical ways to communicate a new God-given reality so that as leaders our team moves in unity rather than fragmentation? Because again, as a leader,
Eric Albright (29:02.584)
Nice.
Jordan Ames (29:19.009)
Maybe we're on a leadership team and so together we're like a church organization. We're trying to figure out where God's taking us and we decide that as a leadership team. Or maybe we're just the individual leader and we're responsible for casting that vision. But of course everybody, it's very natural to be like, well, that seems unrealistic or too crazy or too whatever. And you're thinking, yeah, but I believe that's where God's taking us.
Can you offer some practical ways that we can communicate that? Yeah. Yeah. Let's hear it.
Eric Albright (29:51.714)
yeah, I got some practical ways and they're fixing to get a whole bunch of Marine Corps planning process right here. So I just came back from a, I think this is very simple and straight forward. Yeah.
Jordan Ames (29:58.308)
Let's go.
Jordan Ames (30:04.515)
Hold up, hold up, hold up, before you start, let me remind everybody, one of Eric's, I think it was his second to last assignment, he was a chief instructor, teaching captains the Marine Corps planning process at Quantico. So you might be in for a master class in the next five minutes. Go ahead.
Eric Albright (30:18.51)
That's right.
Eric Albright (30:24.898)
Let me see here. Let's see if it's sitting here.
It isn't, you're lucky. I have a flaminated, I would have shown you. But, yeah, I know. But here's the thing, so we're not going go into the super weeds, like very high level stuff, the Marine Corps playing process has a thing called IPB, Intelligence Preparation of the Battlefield. There's four steps to it, but one of those steps is problem framing. I just came back from a course, it was an executive education course at Johns Hopkins Carey School of Business. It was a two week course. One of the things we,
Jordan Ames (30:29.315)
Nice.
Awesome.
Eric Albright (30:57.392)
did on second week near the end was we had the science and technology department, the applied physics lab, which by the way, Johns Hopkins, everybody sees it as a medical school. were actually the first, their first applied physics lab got their start was in World War II when they developed and implemented a variable time diffuse.
for frag and they went from 2,000 rounds to hit one airplane to six.
Jordan Ames (31:31.253)
Wow.
Eric Albright (31:32.322)
How about that? Anyways, Applied Physics Lab, they brought some problems in for us and they're like, hey, here's some of the things, projects we're working on. And so what would you do in the first 30 days to implement this? What would you do in the first six months? And that all comes, and so this is a practical example of this. And so applying the Marine Corps planning process, which is a deliberate planning process, you would start with, the first thing, the most important thing is you got to start with, to get the vision out to your team, you have to, as a team, bring them in,
Jordan Ames (31:47.841)
Yeah.
Eric Albright (32:02.628)
and together work through defining what problem are we trying to solve. Okay? So like, what is our starting point? Like where are we at? What are we actually, what is it we're trying to fix here? And there's an old goofy story of why, how we got here with the IPB stuff is because it was, it had to do with the insurgency and not having a good plan for the three block war in Iraq and the-
Jordan Ames (32:09.367)
Yep.
Eric Albright (32:26.318)
2000s it's like okay before we try to figure out how we're gonna figure out you know transitioning government we probably need to figure out what do we actually want to try and do what's the output here like what problem are we trying to solve okay so start there and then once you have that what figuring out okay here's we framed the problem this is what we're trying to fix and then you fit and then you look in the very end and say what's the end state what I'm trying to fix this problem what do I want this to look
Jordan Ames (32:36.29)
Yeah.
Eric Albright (32:56.322)
like when we're finished. Okay? And that may be different for your one-year view, your five-year view, and your ten-year view, right? It could be different and this goes into like agile Lean Six stuff, but you could go into like my one week looks different than my one month looks different than my first quarter. You know I'm saying? Different end states. And so once you know what problem you're trying to solve, you've defined it, and you know where you're trying to go, then you develop Jordan, you know this, your mission statement somewhere in middle of
Jordan Ames (32:57.933)
Yeah.
Jordan Ames (33:14.763)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.
Eric Albright (33:26.272)
that, and what encompasses your mission statement, it's your purpose.
Jordan Ames (33:26.808)
Yeah.
A clearly defined objective, really. Yeah.
Eric Albright (33:32.366)
Exactly your purpose What are you doing it for your method? How am I going to do it and your end state? What I want to look like when I'm finished so you so once you have you know what you're trying to solve You know what you want it to look like you develop your reason for doing it The method by which you're going to do it to solve that here's employees. I'm have here's some resources I'm gonna apply to it blah blah blah over a course of blank amount of time And then here's the end state will look like when we're Sit man it links that mission
statement links those two things, beginning and the end. But there's so much more to it, but that's the broad-brush start there.
Jordan Ames (34:07.448)
Yeah.
But even, mentioned the starting point being framing the problem, which obviously makes sense if the vision obviously is solving that problem, and what does it look like when the problem's solved, right? Like what does, of course in the military, does the battle space look like? But we also, and part of the planning process is like,
analyzing our current position, like what resources do we have right now? What time available do we have right now? So we do those things so that we understand what resources we may need to go get, what support we may need to get. And so when I see this from a faith perspective, and even you just shared it from a very practical military perspective,
is that you are identifying a problem and defining an end state before you even say, okay, we have these types of weapons, these types of abilities, these types of resources. don't let...
your capabilities and your resources, what you have right now, you don't let that determine the end state. The end state is determined by the problem you have to solve. And then you figure out, OK, what do we have right now to solve it? OK, we don't have everything we need. Now you start planning to get the different resources and get the equipment and.
Eric Albright (35:42.839)
Yeah.
Jordan Ames (35:55.196)
and capabilities and build the team that you might need to solve it. And I think that ties right in to what God wants us to do. Like figure out the end state. Yeah.
Eric Albright (36:04.75)
Well, that's it, Jordan. Listen, this may be the first time. Yeah, this may be the first time this has ever happened, but we're going to we're going to apply the Marine Corps planning process to God's purpose and creation of man. and scripture itself and the holy gospel. All right. Problem. The fall. OK, we're framing this so.
Jordan Ames (36:18.871)
Yeah. Let's do it.
Jordan Ames (36:27.671)
Yeah.
Eric Albright (36:30.956)
The problem that we're trying to solve is man is now separated from God, that he's kicked out of the garden. So, end state, so that's the problem. Man is separated from God. Okay.
End state, God says I want to reconcile man back to me. That's the end state. Okay, so the purpose and method is this the purpose I'm getting is the to reconcile. Here's the this is the mission statement for all of scripture for Christians Okay, and I am completely making this up on the spot. So you all can purpose I am sending well The purpose is to reconcile man back to God. Okay, the method by which I'm gonna do
Jordan Ames (36:48.312)
Yeah.
Jordan Ames (37:01.485)
I like it.
Jordan Ames (37:11.555)
and
Eric Albright (37:12.824)
is I'm gonna send in my soldiers like you said Gabriel I'm gonna let the people know and I'm and Jesus he's the method the end state is we're reconciled purpose to reconcile method Gabriel through it Gabriel is just one of the soldiers he's like IPB he's prepping the battlefield purpose reconciliation method Jesus end state reconciled done there's some other things in there that happen
Jordan Ames (37:28.931)
Yeah, yeah.
Jordan Ames (37:36.568)
Done.
Eric Albright (37:39.458)
But that's the mission statement applied to the gospel, right? That's it. So cleanly put, the problem is, don't, man is not reconciled. The end statement is man is reconciled. The method is, Jesus Christ comes and does that for us and he connects those two. There's a whole bunch of...
Jordan Ames (37:43.959)
Yeah, right on.
Jordan Ames (38:02.209)
And what's awesome, bringing this into, again, leadership and walking in faith when God's taking us on a direction, given your analogy and example there, and Jesus says it several times, especially after talking with the rich young ruler, and he's like, with man, this is impossible, but not with God. And so,
The whole, like you said, the purpose is to be reconciled back to God. The end state is that reconciliation. Man does it in their current position. They do not have the resources to do it. They have abilities, strengths. We each have different capabilities. have different whatever God has given us. But we do not have the ability to reconcile ourselves back to God. And yet,
That's been God's vision the whole time. And so what does he do? He provides the resource, which is Jesus. Now that might be a great moment to close on.
Eric Albright (39:01.71)
That's a great point.
Eric Albright (39:06.392)
There it is.
Jordan Ames (39:08.685)
So do you have any challenge to the listeners to encourage them to maybe cast a big vision that's going to stretch them, step them out on faith? Maybe it's a challenge to communicate more clearly. Maybe it's a challenge to seek God for clarity. What you got?
Eric Albright (39:34.286)
That's a good question.
I have to think about that for a second for a really good answer, but here's what I have off the bat. Number one, first thing that came to mind, I'll go from the secular side first, is just take inventory of what you have going on inside the office, And meaning like what projects are you working on? And maybe even take inventory of the last seven to 14 days, the last one to two weeks, maybe the last month. Think through your head and play back.
Who has come into my office and asked me questions? Who has asked me to be more clear about something? Maybe it was an email. Who came and sought guidance on something? Maybe because I didn't quite clearly outline it. then take that, write it down, and say, let me just recap and revisit what my original description to them was or my original intent. And was it clearly articulated? And maybe you just need to go back with your team and revisit that.
me reframe what the problem in this situation and what I want to see come out of this. Make sense Jordan? So just take a quick inventory of the last couple weeks in the workplace and see if there's anything you might, and any projects you're working on with your team or if there's orders or instructions that you've given out that you may need to reframe. Right, just clean it up.
Jordan Ames (40:43.426)
Yeah.
Jordan Ames (40:57.048)
Yeah.
Eric Albright (40:57.334)
And then the second challenge will be to use the purpose method end state or define the problem and define the end state before you start to give guidance going forward. That's the real challenge. Implement this. know? Implement this.
Jordan Ames (41:08.705)
Yeah, and I think what's tough about that, that can be simple whenever we easily see what the end state is. We see how it can be done. It's just a normal thing, a day-to-day thing. But when we're talking about an end state that God is taking us to,
that is out of our comfort zone, that is stretching us, is gonna stretch our resources and we're like, wow, don't like, we're like Zachariah, like how can I be sure of this? Like this is a crazy thing. But my heart's telling me God's taking me this direction. It's gonna take faith to communicate that kind of vision, like you said, a purpose, method, end state type of communication to your team. And going back to,
to Jesus in John 14, 29 where he's like, I am telling you this now so that you will believe. I really think that's how God wants to use us is stating what we believe he is taking us to before we have all the answers, before we have the plan. When we are like, I don't know if this seems crazy, but.
God has confirmed we're going in this direction. I think communicating that, and again, it may be tough in a secular environment, certainly, but communicate it to fellow believers, to, that's what groups at church are supposed to be, like share that. I think as a leader, God's taken me in this direction with my team, whatever, and I just wanna share that because,
I want people to believe it when it happens. You know what mean? And I think one thing, and I'll close with this. One thing that God has really challenged me on and I think is, I think it's where, I say the American church is comfortable and I think it's where a lot of us are comfortable is,
Jordan Ames (43:20.789)
Some do great, so I'll speak to myself, because it's convicting for me, but we don't earnestly, like truly earnestly seek God for that vision, for that clarity that much. And I'm even thinking, not only in prayer, corporately, or even in solitude, like fasting. I fasted before for certain things, but like.
Eric Albright (43:46.968)
Would you say that people are slow to fast?
Jordan Ames (43:50.084)
Yes, yes, people are definitely slow to fast. It's just a practice that I think is very biblical that I think God certainly calls us to that we're apprehensive about. We're like, really? Why would not eating, know, unleash? It's so...
Eric Albright (44:08.716)
Let me break, you can cut this later if you want, because we're at 44 minutes. But Mike, I have a good friend that we share. His name's Robert Gervasio, okay? And he's a good Catholic young fella, all right? And I am not.
Jordan Ames (44:13.367)
Yeah, yeah.
Jordan Ames (44:19.351)
Yeah.
Eric Albright (44:26.262)
Okay, so Baptists don't fast. The only thing that Baptists fast to is run fast to the bounce house on Sunday afternoon when church is over. Someone actually told me he's like he's a Catholic friend of mine. He's like yeah you all are the bounce house religion. I'm like that's actually pretty funny. accepted and received. but anyways Rob said one time hey let's do this fasting thing because look Jesus fasted. It's in scripture. I'm like okay it's not unbiblical. Let's try this out this fasting thing.
Jordan Ames (44:34.243)
Yeah, right.
Jordan Ames (44:44.675)
Ha
Eric Albright (44:56.256)
But the whole point and this is the serious part of that so I did it with him as a sign of solidarity and just and you know with him but the point of fasting is when you feel the need to eat or you you get the you know the sense that you're hungry that's an opportunity every single time you feel that that's It's not an emotion. What would you call it that response the hunger pangs the response? Remind you to remind you to think of him and I'm talking about him, right?
Jordan Ames (44:59.041)
Yeah.
Jordan Ames (45:18.763)
Yeah, it's a physical response.
Eric Albright (45:26.096)
Think of God, think of Jesus, think of your faith. That's the fasting portion. So every time you're hungry, your mind is focused. It reminds you to focus on Him. And for a week we fasted, which seemed like the longest seven days of my life. But we fasted.
Jordan Ames (45:41.293)
Like water only?
Eric Albright (45:43.116)
No, no, we it was no breakfast no lunch dinner. yeah. Yeah, it was like a partial fast and And so yeah every time you're hungry you think about him or what he's done for you or something specific in your faith You want to focus on and that's that was the utility of it. It wasn't just a random Let's just do something to do it. We put some teeth to it like So the problem was we didn't we didn't have folks enough on faith The end state is I want to be more focused on faith the method is to fast
Jordan Ames (45:46.825)
Okay, still
Yeah.
Jordan Ames (46:02.902)
Right.
Eric Albright (46:13.09)
therefore I consider that thing I want to focus on and there and by the end of that week I've more clearly defined or more clearly thought about it and achieved end state. That was it.
Jordan Ames (46:23.489)
Yeah, that's good. So I'll close for the listeners. just talked about prayer and fasting. We just encourage you to, as you're thinking of a direction God's taking you and you're seeking Him to define that new reality for you, go to Him in prayer, in solitude with Him, but also corporately with your church body with.
Church leaders, seek them, ask them to pray with you. And even if you feel led, it's certainly biblical. Ask people to fast with you as you seek him with that. This lesson today was pulled out of page 251 from our book. If you have our book, that's where this lesson comes from. There it is. So we certainly encourage you to read, and that's what we do in this podcast. We grab lessons from that book. We hope to have more guests on.
Eric Albright (47:02.744)
No.
Jordan Ames (47:15.62)
Eric is a co-host and course Ben Hunter, if you've listened to us before, he's a co-host. So we try to riff it up between the two of us and even the three of us and discuss lessons right out of the gospel. So until next time, we'll see you. Thanks for joining us.
