Jordan Ames (00:01.794)
Are you seeking to multiply what you've been given? Do you see it as your responsibility to do much more with the talents, abilities, gifts, time, and other resources that God has given you? In this episode, we are going to discuss a very important truth that I believe separates Christ centered leaders.
From those who focus on worldly achievements.
And so I want to kind of talk about before I get into the passage I'm going to read out of Luke 12, I want to kind of brief over just the lesson from the parable of talents. So
Jesus is telling this parable to his disciples, and he gives the illustration of a master and these three servants. Okay, the master gives five talents, which at that time is equal to, I think it was like 20 years' wages, pretty large amount of money. So five talents. Another servant he gives two talents, another one one talent.
So the master then leaves, goes to another country, comes back years later to find out how the servants have stewarded the talents he's given them. So the one he gave five talents, that servant doubled it. Now it's ten talents. The one he gave two talents, that servant doubled it to four talents. And he said to those servants, Well done, good and faithful servant. He said, You
Jordan Ames (01:47.66)
were entrusted with little, now I'm going to entrust you with much. I'm paraphrasing. But then the servant that he gave one talent buried it. That way when the master came back, he could give the he didn't lose anything. Like here, let me give you what you gave me back. Well the master called that servant wicked and not only
Did he not entrust that servant with more? But he took, the master took back what he had originally given that servant. Now I encourage you to read about that whole parable when you have a few minutes. But that's a little bit about what today's message is on, but we're going to be looking at a different passage out of Luke 12. Because, see, one thing that
Ben Hunter (02:42.009)
you
Jordan Ames (02:42.636)
I know God's really been working on my heart throughout the past several years is all the blessings that He's given to me. Am I entrusting Him with continued blessings and therefore using and stewarding the blessings that He has that He's currently given me? Am I stewarding them for His kingdom or am I in a sense stewarding them for my own kingdom and trying to build
My own whatever it is, status, wealth, power, or my taking status, wealth, power that he's given me to grow his kingdom. See, I believe he gives us so much because he wants us to be a part of what he's doing. And what we're going to talk about today is the more he gives us, the more he expects us.
From us. So let me dig into Luke chapter twelve, starting at verse thirty-five. I'm going to read the whole way through verse forty-eight. All right, and this is all Jesus speaking. Be dressed, ready for service, and keep your lamps burning, like men waiting for their master to return from a wedding banquet, so that when he comes and knocks, they can immediately open the door for him.
It will be good for those servants whose master finds them watching when he comes. I tell you the truth, he will dress himself to serve. I d I excuse me, I tell you the truth, he will dress himself to serve, will have them recline at the table, and will come and wait on them. It will be good for those servants whose master finds them ready, even if he comes in the second or third watch of the night.
But understand this, if the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have let his house be broken into. You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.
Jordan Ames (04:56.216)
So Jesus right there is is kind of painting the picture of his second coming.
And he's really encouraging his disciples, and maybe maybe there's others that he's talking to here, but he's really encouraging them to always be ready, to be found using the blessings that he's given them, using what he's entrusted to them for the kingdom.
So then verse 41, Peter asks, Lord, are you telling this parable to us or to everyone? So Peter's asking, is this just specifically for those in Jesus' inner circle? Or is this, is this everyone? Is this all humanity? The Lord answered, Who then is the faithful and wise manager whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time?
It will be good for that servant whom the master finds doing so when he returns. I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. But suppose the servant says to himself, My master is taking a long time in coming, and he then begins to beat the men's servants and maid servants, and to eat and drink and get drunk. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him, and at an hour.
He is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers. So Jesus paints a picture of the master coming back and going to the manager that he put in charge of, let's say, his estate. So there's a bunch of men servants and maidservants. And if he comes back and finds the one he put in charge of all that, all those things that.
Jordan Ames (06:57.314)
That the master owns, if he's just squandering them, he's beating the men's servants and the maidservant, he's just kind of basically taking over the estate for himself to build it up for himself. What Jesus says is he will cut him to pieces and assign him with a place, a place with the unbelievers. This is very similar to the parable of the talents, where Jesus is saying that the one who
Who just buried the talent, who basically did nothing with it, will be called wicked. In this case, the servant is squandering what he was given. So then verse 47: that servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten.
With few blows. So either way, if we're not doing what we're supposed to do, whether we know it or not, we're going to be punished for it. And then lastly, in verse 48, he says, From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded. And from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.
Ben Hunter (07:56.786)
Thank
Jordan Ames (08:25.218)
This whenever we were writing the lessons in the book, this passage really gripped me because I had just retired from the military a few years before. and I probably shared this on the podcast before, but I I went through a great curriculum organization that helped us as we're transitioning out of the military to help us identify our purpose. That way we could enter into civilian life.
Coming out of the military where our purpose was very clear, serving the nation, defending it, fighting against evil. Now we had to come into civilian life, and we really truly needed to re-identify our purpose so that we could really value what we could offer in different ways. And one thing, and I and I write about this in the lesson in the book, it's titled Do Much More.
Ben Hunter (09:06.672)
Good night.
Ben Hunter (09:24.992)
you
Jordan Ames (09:25.848)
I write about how
Looking back, my identity as a marine raider, I really held on to. I almost thought that just having that equaled value and people would see that and they would want, I don't know, some sort of whatever I had to offer.
A lot of people saw me as humble, but I knew looking back on that that those were that that internally I wasn't being humble. I didn't have a humble attitude. and Lord really showed that to me. And I'm gonna bring Ben in here in a second. But Ben did an interview with Ed Graham on this podcast f a few months ago, and Ed shared the same transition from coming out of the the Army Rangers into civilian life.
Of how he needed to take on a new identity, how he needed to drop that Army Ranger identity. Now we can be proud of our past service, but our identity in Christ is really the foundational identity that makes any other role or position or title or effort or whatever it is God's taking us to, our identity in Christ is what gives.
life and value to that identity. And I I knew this, certainly, but it was so easy to kind of hold on to this Marine Raider identity. and I'm not even one to I tell people I'm I'm no war hero. I was never decorated with any sort of valor. I love the fact that I was able to serve with some of the America's really most elite warriors in the special operations community.
Jordan Ames (11:20.694)
And I and I love being part of that community. But I know that God was really teaching me that He has much more for me. And that's what really I want to talk about today and and really discuss with Ben is like God has given us blessings, whether it's wealth blessings, status blessings, like he's taken us and given us experience that then we can use to to serve his kingdom in other ways. a lot of
What I've seen, especially since I retired, a lot of guys in the military have clung on to this identity they had in the military, and it's kind of destroying them in their post-military life because they haven't found a new purpose and they haven't established their identity in Christ. So I'm gonna bring Ben in. Ben is currently in the retirement transition, so I'm looking forward to to hearing what he has.
Ben Hunter (12:04.204)
you
Jordan Ames (12:18.2)
to say on this topic. So Ben, welcome back to the podcast, man. It's been a it's been a few months. And yeah, so like when you think about all the achievements you've had in in the army, and Ben's been spent several more years than I have in the military and and I know he's you know been enlisted, been officer, been across the conventional and special operations areas of the army.
done tremendous things for this country. And when when you think about doing much more, and Ben, you're probably a couple years older than me. And like you're you're entering retirement. Probably like me, I was like, I just want to calm down. I want to go live on some side of the mountain and nobody bother me. But like this this passage and like the parable of the talents really convicts me that like all right I'm
Ben Hunter (13:11.369)
you
Jordan Ames (13:16.28)
God's still giving me life for a reason, and he wants me to do more with what he's given me. So what what are your thoughts on that?
Ben Hunter (13:22.218)
Great question Jordan. It's good to be back on the podcast. It's been a been a little bit so it's good I get back into it Life has just been really busy lately. And like you said, you know, I'm in the middle of that in transition period My last day in the army will be July 31st, you know this month so getting excited and nervous at the same time So, yeah, I think
Jordan Ames (13:27.586)
Yeah, good to have you.
Jordan Ames (13:47.467)
Yeah.
Ben Hunter (13:51.571)
You know, one of the things that comes to mind is, you know, military service is deeply like a life career, a lifestyle that you and your family, right, are, you know, kind of have to be all in on. Because essentially, right, the military owns you, the government owns you and your family pretty much.
Jordan Ames (14:15.96)
Yeah, yeah.
Ben Hunter (14:17.768)
And so you start to get in this space where that's not gonna be the case anymore. And like you spoke to, and Ed Graham and I had a chance to do a podcast. We talked about this, about the identity crisis. And when we spoke to it on a couple different times on a podcast, I'm telling you, we get so much feedback. There are so many folks out there right now that are kinda in that space of...
I've gotten out of the military or I'm about to get out the military and I'm just not sure what to do with myself. I'm struggling, what is my calling? And so it's very interesting to kind of go through that journey, really. And I felt like God started putting me through the journey of transitioning several years ago until I finally made the decision to do it and kind of helped me find my identity in Christ, not in being an army ranger in my army career.
One of the things I've, for me, and you talk about, God has blessed us with so many different things, how are we using those either gifts or blessings that God's given us? One thing that comes to mind for me is my family. God has given me an amazing family, a wife and three young adult children, daughters, and one of the things that I look forward to is
leading my family more and having the opportunity to be involved with my family in a lot of ways, because my military career has been so busy and we've been moving all the time. My wife and I right now are looking at each other like, now we're going to be around each other a lot more. Let's see how this goes. But it's also exciting because I've been so focused for so many years on
my military career and I, you know, in a lot of ways God has helped me see like there's lots of other ways to lead through the gifts that God's given me, you know, and I truly believe God's given me the gift of leadership and you know, there's no reason why myself and other folks out there can't take what we've learned and help lead our families better, lead our families well. you know, another thing that comes to mind too is there's
Ben Hunter (16:43.493)
also now an opportunity where maybe my job, what I get paid to do, isn't my calling, it's how I earn a living, but I'm also, you know, I can also do other things in order to lead folks or, you know, lean on my military experience and share that with others in a way that's helpful. You know, one interesting thing, we live in a college town now in Auburn.
Alabama and you know, my daughters are all college age or senior in high school and a lot of their friends, the guy friends when they find out that I was Army Ranger in military and they're thinking about ROTC, I've had several folks reach out to me, young men who are either starting college, the ROTC program or thinking about it and wanting mentorship and leadership on, you know, what are some things I need to do?
mentally, spiritually, physically to prepare myself for military life, those types of things. How can I be more successful in ROTC? How can I be a good Christian leader while also in the military? Those types of things. so starting to see where God can open doors for us to be leaders and share our gifts that we've been given that maybe aren't.
our careers or our jobs necessarily. Obviously, we can share and live a life that is a light for folks to see God in our jobs, but because we come out of the military and it's so life consuming and it's all in one, there's an opportunity there, I think, where I'm at where it's like, okay, the job I go into maybe isn't something that's, you know,
similar to the military, but it's gonna provide for our family. But then what are some other things the Lord will put me in other situations that I can lead and influence and use the gifts that God's given me to help others, you know?
Jordan Ames (18:54.818)
Yeah, I think that's huge. it's it's very
Yeah, we we want to I know I've I've wanted to and I did in the military. You kinda would you want you would love to have what you get paid to do like be your calling. Right. And I and I see that with yeah, you mentioned you have you have college age daughters. I have a few boys that are just kind of past college age, and then kids, you know, college age and but
It's it's I don't know, it's maybe it's our culture, our society. It's like there's so much pressure on young adults to to need to like pick a career or or like feel like they have to if I get if I am passionate about this thing, well then the next step is college and then landing a job within this pa and it's like it's like your calling, your passions, whatever, have to be
career focused in whatever. And I I've even I've even seen people like not really sure what that is. And so they're they're, I don't know, wanting to be like settle for mediocracy because they don't have this calling yet. and I think a couple of things are clear in scripture. if a man doesn't work, he doesn't eat.
Ben Hunter (20:19.412)
Right.
Jordan Ames (20:27.094)
Right, that's very clear. I think it's in in one of the Timothy. but then our our calling as far as spiritual calling to go and make disciples is clear for everybody. So it's like the idea of bloom where you're planted. Like, regardless on what we're doing to make money, it's an opportunity to share Christ, either through our actions or words, or both. and and yeah, I think.
Especially young people, they just and I I know I was there.
But it's just like it's so much pressure to have a calling that gives you a paycheck. and it's good. Certainly, I would I would encourage anybody out there, whatever you're looking at doing as far as for pay, do something that gives you passion and desires, but it doesn't have to like it doesn't have to be some calling from God. It could be a an open door. We were talking before we started recording. I was just asking Ben.
Like what kind of what type of like lifestyle and and things in that way he was he was looking to get into. And that that could be God provides him a job to fit that lifestyle, which frees him up more to be home more, you know, to just do other things that God is truly calling him to do. and then there could be opportunities where God places
The a paid job right in front of you that fulfills the calling. He's, and that's where each one of us just needs to submit to where he's directing us, which I'm still working on. I was I was just sharing with Ben again before we started recording this morning. I was just praying like, Lord, direct me where you want. Like I want to obey you. I want to follow your direction. show me that direction. Close doors, open doors.
Jordan Ames (22:26.892)
I want to be someone who has so much faith that God is going to provide and direct and that his way is going to be the best way for me. That I don't care what door you close, what door you open, just make it clear and and let me walk through that. so I'll I'll share a little bit and then I want to ask ask Ben to share as well. But
Ben Hunter (22:37.533)
you
Jordan Ames (22:55.254)
I'm kind of dealing with whether or not it's a calling. but again, I probably shared on this podcast of lead a counter human trafficking organization. And last last summer, God really convicted me that I wasn't doing the the right thing, the faithful thing to cast a vision and start moving in that vision through building strategy and and you're just typical strategic leadership type of stuff and planning.
and it was really out of a lack of faith. I worried that we weren't going to have the provisions to continue it. and the Lord really convicted me and said, like, you need to trust that I'll provide, but you need to do the right thing as a leader. and I started doing that. I still arguably was dragging my feet. I even shared plenty of times that I I really felt like Moses at the burning bush where
God was calling him, hey, you're gonna lead my people out of Israel. And Moses was like, Yeah, but this, but that, I don't know about all that. How about you find somebody else? And God wasn't God wasn't picking anybody else, he was picking Moses. And of course, Moses did it and he he went all in with it. He went all in so much that he had to spend 40 extra years in the desert that he should have never had to spend, and it wasn't his fault. but hey, and I just in my Bible reading this morning.
Reading Jonah. Because another thing we talk about calling, sometimes we think that our calling has to be something that we just really, really want to do, and we want and we're passionate about. And yes, I think there's times God calls us into areas that He has truly given us passion desires. But in Jonah's case, he was not at all passionate about going to Nineveh. And
And even after Nineveh repented, that actually made Jonah less passionate about the situation. yeah, I I think it's I think it's there's a lot of lessons there. And I think the biggest one is understanding that to much to here. I'm gonna read the verse again. I'm gonna butcher it, but Luke twelve forty-eight from everyone who has been given much, much.
Jordan Ames (25:19.01)
Will be demanded. And from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked. I know God has given me much. I know that He's entrusted me with much. So one, I shouldn't be, I can be asking Him for more, but I also need to be looking at myself and saying, Hey, am I doing more with what He's given me? And and in the
in the context of the counter trafficking I was just talking about, I knew I wasn't. and so I'm still praying for that direction. I know God's going to bless it 'cause I believe it's something that's that at is at his heart. He's opened doors with meeting certain people, reconnecting with old friends who are passionate about it. And so things are moving in that direction. I'm still unclear with how much he's wanting me to be involved, but like I I mentioned,
kind of still at the helm of it and I feel like Moses is the burning bush. Like right now he's not putting anybody else there. So so I got it. But yeah Ben good is there any kind of putting Ben on the spot, but is there any points whether in your past military time or recently where like you feel like God has put something on your heart or you feel like he's pushing you in a certain direction and you're just like I don't know. That's
You gotta be clear, Lord, because yeah.
Ben Hunter (26:48.262)
Yeah, no, I think for sure and you know, we talked before that we started recording too about you know as I'm going through, you know different job searches and you know, I work part-time on staff for our church And and help out there and you know, that's definitely a door that God has opened and you know, I'm You know very transparent with the church too. It's like I'm not sure if this is what God's calling me into as a
director of facilities and securities for our church. It's an amazing opportunity. I'm loving the people that I work with and serving the church and learning a lot. And my prayer every morning is like, Lord, this what you're asking me to walk into fully? And so just really in that transition period of, this what you're calling me into? Is there something else?
And so, yeah, I think it's being vulnerable and obedient, allowing yourself to be put in uncomfortable situations in new industries and jobs and understanding what it takes and being vulnerable enough to being turned down for jobs that you think that are fitting for you, but God closes the door and.
Jordan Ames (28:08.174)
Yeah.
Ben Hunter (28:10.229)
All those things are, I feel strongly that those are all things that God's pruning us for, what is really he's calling us into. As we, cause all those times of questioning and either being denied or going through tough times and job searches or in the current job that you're in, in a tough season in that job, these are all ways God's building your character and God's pruning you to...
really fulfill what he's got in store for you. It's a difficult place to be, it's easy to talk about, it's not easy to do and be in that, but yeah, I think it's an important part. And again, it's all about just, okay, this is not how I thought it was gonna go. Lord, you have given me gifts and blessings, how can I keep using those for your glory? How can I keep stepping into that? Serving the church, serving my family, serving my community.
you know, all those types of things, and you just never know what God's gonna do in that. And so, you know, I kind of speak to those folks who are in, feel like, this, am I in the job I'm supposed to be in? Am I, you know, am I a young college person? You know, is this the career I'm supposed to be moving into? You know, continually, faithfully doing what you're doing, but also understand, like, there's all kinds of other ways to serve God and his people and.
to to step into that, you just never know what's gonna happen.
Jordan Ames (29:40.834)
Yeah, so good. So good. and and this this whole really the topic that we're that we're on, the topic as it pertains to the parable of talents, as it pertains to this passage, is something that's is probably one of the main things that God's really been working in my life on over the past several years is
Ben Hunter (29:41.747)
Yeah.
Jordan Ames (30:08.616)
multiplication. Like am I am I living in a way to multiply the kingdom with what God has given me? And that there's no retirement from that job, right? It's always just do much more, right? and so as I, as God's been working on me with that.
Ben Hunter (30:23.859)
That's right. That's right. That's good.
Jordan Ames (30:32.374)
I I've started and and I've probably been critical and I I don't like being critical of the church. I love the church. but when I say when I say the church in America, mostly I'm I'm thinking of like the actual local church institutions, certainly at large the body of Christ, as individuals, which we've been talking about up to this point in the podcast. As individuals, we can be comfortable and we can enjoy the blessings of God and just kind of
kind of simmer in them and and and and not want to do more with them. but I what I've seen is the institution of the church. Again, I I say this generally speaking that it's comfortable because there's a lot of churches that are just constantly, hey, God's blessed us here. We're gonna this is the next thing we're moving towards is where we we feel he's leading us and we're going to grow the kingdom. We're going to serve the kingdom in that capacity. And
And to me that's the right way to do it. but I think there's tons of churches out there that are more focused on their own organizational existence than they are of growing the kingdom.
And so I you know, I I'll share a quick story. Ben and I were talking about it before, but a little over a year ago, so it was like early June of last year, 2025, I took my girls to a life surge event. Some of you may have heard of Life Surge. You could YouTube Life Surge and you're gonna find great things about it, and you're gonna find Christians who are bashing the event.
I attended one in Philadelphia, some great speakers. at that one. Nick Wojciech, if I'm saying his name right. number one motivational speaker in the world. John Maxwell was there, Craig Groschel was there. Those those twin brothers, I don't know if you know who I'm talking about, Ben. Twin brothers are they're like minor league baseball players. Now they're they're entrepreneurs, but they have a they're like serial entrepreneurs. But anyways, they
Jordan Ames (32:48.226)
They are they have like courses on right now media. They're all over the map with or all over the the the space with like kingdom, Christian, faith-based entrepreneurship and doing it the right way biblically. And they were speakers there. but this this event, they had they had worship from Bethel worship, but they're also trying to encourage the attendees to grow wealth with a focus on the kingdom.
personal wealth, but to use it to glorify the kingdom. and so when I was there, I got a text from a good friend of mine who cautioned me about Bethel worship. And I was like, I've never never been cautioned about Bethel worship or their music. but I guess there's this there's this movement out there called the new apost apost. Help me out, Ben. New Apost
Apostolithic, maybe new apostolithic reformation. never heard of it before. And I I very much value my friend's you know, side of things. Anything he would he would give to me, I very much value it. but he sent me some articles and he's like, Hey, this is why I you know I think you need to be concerned. And he sent me these, one article was written by a
Ben Hunter (33:50.926)
Yeah, I think that's right. Yeah.
Jordan Ames (34:15.822)
A guy who has, I don't know, multiple master's degrees, PhDs, he's professor of this seminary or that seminary. So very well written when it comes to academia type stuff. Everything was well resourced, all that stuff. Very well written. But he was slamming the music of the big three churches. I didn't even know these were the big three, but Elevation, Bethel, and Hillsong. slamming their music because it was very
emotionally like it it's so charismatic that it it's designed to create emotions in you to where you have some sort of I don't know interaction with the Holy Spirit. That's kind of what he's writing. And I'm thinking, well we are to love God with all of our heart, soul, mind, and strength. And if you break those down, your heart are emotions, your soul is your spirit, your mind is of course your mental capacity and
And your strength is your body, physical body, like honor God and what you eat and how you exercise and stuff. So we're we're supposed to love God with our emotions. So then my question would be is what is wrong with a song that encourages emotional response? To me, nothing. so I could go on about that, but there you could look it up. there's a lot of there's a lot of
I guess hate going towards these organizations like Bethel and Elevation and Hillsong. And I'm sure you could bring up dirt on any one of those churches. I'm sure you could bring up dirt on their leadership. I'm sure you could bring up something about how their theology is wrong.
But if you're thinking, if you're as a listener right now, if you're saying, yeah, you know, I've heard that stuff too, and and yeah, I think those churches are this or that, I would argue you can find any church in the United States and you could probably bring up dirt on the church and on their leadership. myself, Ben and Eric wrote this book, Red Letter Leadership. I'll tell you what, I have I have learned
Jordan Ames (36:32.798)
After after going through writing those lessons and since then and doing these podcasts, I've learned more of where I lack in leadership than where I'm so great at leadership. I never I never wrote those lessons because I thought I was some expert. It was just something I was passionate about and I felt Lord calling me to dig into the gospels. And I said, Well, if I'm learning stuff, if I'm writing lessons, I might as well share them with people.
Jordan Ames (37:01.538)
Yeah, so this whole idea of, in my opinion, where the American church is comfortable, is I think it's comfortable because
We have so many voices wanting to attack each other and each other's way of doing things rather than getting after growing the kingdom. And the churches that are truly, when you look at them, and I'm not just saying they have a lot of people in their pews or in their seats or whatever, but the churches that are really focused on growing the kingdom, they're not engaging in some of this back and forth because they don't have time for it.
They're getting out and growing the kingdom, just like Jesus did. Like he would take all this heat, and all he would do is just fire back a question. Not fire back, you just ask a question. And they were either, he didn't get into some argument, right? He just did his thing. He just taught lessons and parables and healed people and loved them and had compassion on them. He just was focused on the kingdom. And right before he left, he told his disciples, Go and make disciples. Basically,
Do you see what I've been doing for three years? Rinse and repeat. Okay. so yeah, I'll I'll Ben this is kind of a loaded question. but like do you see where and I say the American church because we have so many blessings and we we think about doing much more. How is generally speaking, how is the American church? and if you have examples of specifics or or churches that are doing
Ben Hunter (38:20.969)
Yeah, yeah.
Jordan Ames (38:39.394)
great things and stepping out of the comfort zone and growing the kingdom, but like how are we or are we not doing much more with the blessings that God has given us?
Ben Hunter (38:52.39)
Yeah, it's good. You know, it's unfortunate that we even have to have conversation or talk about the fact that folks are, you know, particular maybe dominant denominations or, you know, talking negatively about other denominations or folks, you know, and there is there is a sense of being I don't want to say skeptical. It's not the right word, but paying attention to what's being taught, you know, and understanding like
Are these, do these things align with the scripture? You know, and I think that's important to have those kind of internal and external conversations with your life group and you know, here's the thing, there is no perfect church. Number one, it doesn't exist. And why doesn't that not exist? Because we are all sinners. Everyone that sits inside your church, my church, and everybody listening, they're all sinners, including the person in the pulpit. And so,
You know, it's that we've got to get over the fact that, you know, he said this instead of that. Now, if it's against scripture, that's another conversation. But if it's done in a way that's like doesn't feel comfortable or, you know, why are people reacting the way they're reacting with their hands up or clapping, you know, you know, if that's different or not comfortable for you doesn't mean it's wrong. And so, yeah.
It's just an interesting space and discussion. Like I told you before, when we lived in Alaska, I was fortunate enough to have a really incredible church, ACF, and our life group. We were in a life group with our head pastor, executive pastor, and their wives, and it was just an amazing experience. They're just humans who are trying to do what God has called them to do.
the drama and the things that they have to hear and be accused of and things. It's unfortunate, but I think it's something that comes with the territory a little bit. We're now all part of it. I'm on staff at All Christ Church in Auburn, Miles Fidel, shout out to him. He's incredible and does an incredible job with this. And there was some church drama when we first got here to Auburn, we moved from Alaska.
Ben Hunter (41:16.887)
And we had told people we were planning on going to church, because we had family members that had gone there. And they all were like, ooh, are you sure you want to go there? There's some drama. And my wife and I immediately were like, we kind of heard this before, know, every church has drama. We're not going to let it get to, you know, and so, and we're still there. And I feel like it was a tough space for the church to be in. But however, to your point, I feel like the church
did a great job, the leadership and the leaders of the church did a great job of not getting bogged down in all the drama and really just staying focused on the important thing and that's building disciples and it's building the kingdom. So yeah, it's unfortunate and you know,
I get, you know, I'll get text messages sometimes from family members, my dad and some of the folks about they'll see pictures of our church or, know, I'll share something. He's like, Ben, that looks like a rock, you know, rock concert, not church. And so, yeah, I mean, there's like, it's, it's, it's a different than our parents or maybe grandparents and how they went to church, but it doesn't make it wrong. Yeah, they're teaching from the Bible and yeah, so it's.
Jordan Ames (42:38.69)
Yeah.
Ben Hunter (42:48.68)
It's interesting. yeah, I think it's important that the church just is, you know, focused on scripture, the Bible, and then using all the blessings that they're given to continue to move the gospel forward and build disciples. And that's the makings of a good church, you know.
Jordan Ames (43:09.314)
Yeah, that's good. Yeah, so good. at the end there, you mentioned about like the rock concert. I I think that culturally the church is going to change and look different. And that's okay because you go to some Arabic church, let's say in the Middle East, but they are Christians on fire for Christ.
Chances are the ladies are going to have the head covering over top of them. And they're going to think that they that's what they need to be doing. They that's how they should be dressing. But that's a cultural thing. Maybe that was driven by the Muslim religion that is more prominent around them, but nonetheless, it's a cultural thing. As head covering or not, it's not something that scripturally, you know, God is saying that.
You're sinning if you don't have a head covering, right? Now, for in America, when it comes to music, the culture has shifted over the past decades to be more of the upbeat. I'm a drummer. Like I love playing elevation and hill song and Bethel music. That's a whole lot more fun than playing a hymn that has no dynamics. I'd I'd I love playing hymns.
Where we change things around a little bit. We throw chords on there and the guitarists get into it, whatever. And then I can do some more dynamics with it. but that doesn't change anything about the lyrics, right? And that to me, it helps people connect more because that's the type of music they're listening to, whatever, in the car, even if it's some secular song. Like they're not listening to a secular hymn.
Ben Hunter (44:51.506)
Yeah.
Jordan Ames (45:06.36)
You know, and so yeah, so to that I would say if like go to a church that supports how you do things. One, make sure you love the family there. To me, that's number one. Like it's gonna be easy to find a church.
Jordan Ames (45:29.302)
I hope this is true. It's going to be easy to find a church that is speaking the truth of God's word in the pulpit. Most churches are, not all, sadly. So don't make that your measure of what church you want to attend. Make the measure of what church you want to attend is like, is the f is the family there good people? Like do they support each other? Do they care for each other? You know, do they care for the elderly in the church? Do they just love on each other?
Like go to a church that has a family like that that welcomes you, that loves on you, regardless on where you're coming from. and then if your thing is like I I really just can't stand there and sing hymns all day. My wife loves hymns. She loves singing out of a hymnal, but she also loves the contemporary stuff. But she grew up singing out of a hymnal and she loves like the you know, harmonizing and and whatever. She loves that stuff.
Anyways, if if that's if that's what you love, go to church that does it. Like that's no there's church, but don't hate on the churches that have a rock concert. Okay. If you want a rock concert, then go. There's plenty of churches that do that. Go to one of them. I would say there's and I can't think of the the verse off the top of my head, but it's it's about like well, I'll go ahead and share the the Colossians three twenty three. Like
Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart. That and there's another verse somewhere that talks about like doing something and doing it in a mighty way. Like don't just do something halfway, right? So if if you're a if you have drums and keyboard and bass and guitar and all these rock type instruments, man.
Ben Hunter (47:12.154)
Yeah.
Jordan Ames (47:23.576)
D like go all in and have a rock concert, right? Like do things. Let God use the skills that you have and just worship him mightily. yeah, I think people just get caught up so much on like as if a rock concert thing is is like we shouldn't do, you know. You think of King David, he worshiped God with a harp, right? Imagine if we walked into any church in the United States right now and just
Ben Hunter (47:38.969)
Yeah.
Ben Hunter (47:44.965)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jordan Ames (47:52.93)
you know, sat and played a harp. There'd probably be the older generation be like, I can't do this. I gotta I gotta go have a hymn, you know.
Ben Hunter (48:00.505)
Well, I think about, you know, when they talk about David dancing in the streets, you know, worshiping God and how everybody was like, what's going on with him? he, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And so I think there's a lot of folks who look at today's church and young people, you know, jumping up and down, hands in the air is like, but they are glorifying God just like David did. So, yeah.
Jordan Ames (48:05.197)
Yeah.
Jordan Ames (48:09.708)
Yeah, his own wife. One of One of his wives.
Jordan Ames (48:27.192)
So, anyways, we're gonna close this out. I just wanna challenge each of the listeners. If you're if you're attending a church, I I would I would, this is a challenge. I I would really challenge you to find out what the vision is of that church. Like what is the direction they are going? And is it, does it have a are they kingdom focused?
Or is their vision, the the the direction they're going, is it just focused on their own existence? Because I bet if you start asking around the leadership of your church, people who sit on leadership boards, anyway, people that have been attending there a while, I bet when you start asking around, you're gonna start understanding if your church is focused.
More on the past traditions, the past things that they've done, or are they really focused on taking what God has blessed them with and doing much, much more for his kingdom? Again, I'm not gonna reread it, but dig into Luke twelve verses thirty five to forty-eight. Think about that how it applies to your own life, but also think about that how it applies to the church.
is I think the American church can be doing a lot more with what God has given it. With that, we'll see you on the next episode. Thanks, Ben. It's great having you, brother.
Ben Hunter (50:04.96)
Thanks, Jordan.
